Is this normal for a 10 year old boy?

[Lawcruncher]

Recently my 10 year old (year 5) nephew ‘B’ came to stay with us. I don’t get to see him often due to distance and was really looking forward to this trip. It was easter holidays, his mum had a routine hospital visit and my brother (his dad) had to work, so I was glad to help out by looking after him for a few days. The experience has left me concerned for his wellbeing, and I am not sure what to do. I feel like I should speak to my brother, but I am worried about causing a family rift. I would appreciate any feedback, positive or negative, as currently I feel very conflicted.

I could write so much more here about all the things that concerned me but I’m not sure people would want to read all that, so I will summarise as best I can.
He arrived in tears because his ipad had run out of battery on the car journey. That was my brothers fault because he didn’t remind him to charge it. In the instructions for looking after him I was told that he is only allowed to play on his ipad between 7am and 8pm. His bedtime is 8pm and he is allowed to watch 1 DVD in bed, to help him fall asleep. He sleeps with the light on all night as he doesn’t like the dark.

He needs to be supervised brushing his teeth and using the toilet before bed, otherwise he won’t do it but will say he has. If he doesn’t use the toilet before bed he will wet the bed. He needs help dressing appropriately in the morning. He doesn’t shower, and his mum baths him once a week. He doesn’t use deo and is quite smelly most of the time.

He cannot use a knife and fork. I don’t mean that he is bad with them, I literally mean he cannot use them. At breakfast he was unable to butter his toast. He just didn’t know how to hold the knife and even when shown, just could not do it. He also doesn’t use a fork, preferring a spoon or his fingers.

At lunch in a café he burst into tears when his jacket potato with cheese arrived with salad. He had read the menu and ordered himself, but not realise it would come with salad. That was my fault for not explaining it. After pushing all the salad off the plate (he did use his knife for that) he requested a spoon and proceeded to eat the potato using a spoon and his fingers. He was pushing potato with his fingers onto his spoon, and picking up dropped potato with his fingers. It was embarrassing.

That evening I made steak, chips, mushrooms and peas. B wouldn’t eat the mushrooms or peas, ate the chips with fingers and, after I had to cut it for him, ate the steak pieces with a spoon, using his fingers to push the pieces on. At mealtimes we tried to engage in conversation but all he could talk about was fortnite. At home he eats his meals on his own, on a tray in front of the TV. His standard meal is jacket potato with cheese, but sometimes he has a ham and cheese wrap. His parents eat after he has gone to bed. Even on a weekend, he eats separately in front of the TV.

All B wanted to do all day was sit in his room and play on his ipad, or sit in the living room and watch TV. It turned out that is all he does at home, and we had more tears and tantrums when I wouldn’t let him do that all day. He doesn’t participate in any activities (clubs, sports etc..), or have any friends. He can’t swim, ride a bike, kick a ball or tie shoe laces. He doesn’t read books. He is very overweight and did not want to play at the park I took him to. He would burst into tears at the drop of a hat, and everything is always someone else’s fault. His diet is very limited and does not include salad or vegetables unless you count potato. He likes to snack on crisps and full fat coke and had a full-on meltdown when he learned that we don’t have crisps in the house and only had coke zero, demanding that we go to the supermarket to buy them (we didn’t).

When my brother collected him at the end of the visit I mentioned what it had been like and he just dismissed it with ‘yeah, that’s what 10 year old boys are like!’ and didn’t seem bothered in the slightest.

I know other people with kids similar ages and have not seen anything like this. It was almost like watching a 2/3 year old toddler in a 10 year olds body. We have 2 girls of our own, both at Uni now, and by the time they were 6 or 7 they were fully capable of eating a meal using cutlery, and could tie shoe laces. They didn’t burst into tears at the smallest thing, and were socially able. They had friends, played outside and participated in sports/clubs. By age 10 they were so much more capable and independent then B is.

So is this normal for a 10 year old boy? Am I right or wrong to be concerned? Should I say something to his parents?

Sounds like learned helplessness.

This is so desperately sad and not normal.

DS is also 10 and I'm thinking about him and his friends.

Eating alone in front of the TV everyday is not on for a 10 year old.

At that age they do need to wash more often and be a bit independent so not being able to wash himself sounds odd.

He sounds over stimulated with the huge amount of screen time he's allowed. Maybe that could explain the tantrums. Also very poor diet.

Could he have additional needs?

No this is not normal in any shape or form and it really concerns me that people think it is. A ten year old should be able to use cutlery and be able to entertain themselves without a tv or iPad. He should not be bursting into tears because his device has not battery and he certainly should be showering and brushing his teeth independently. It's really sad that your DN is like this unless he is neurodiverse, which may explain some of his behaviours.

I work in a school and I'm beginning to understand why some students are rude, non compliant and so entitled if this is what parents think is normal behaviour at home. It's a sad state of affairs.

You have to be joking. This is extremely unusual and worrying behaviour

This sounds like a sensitive little boy with sensory issues. Bless him

Although my almost 11yo DD needs her teeth brushing supervised because she’s lazy AF and won’t do it properly otherwise.

It's concerning that there are some on this thread saying it's completely normal.

A ten year old might well be going through puberty and being hormonal which would explain the tears, but it sounds like he's being neglected by his parents if he can't even use a knife and fork? I mean, my sister has taught my 2 year old nephew to use cutlery.

I have 15 yo and 12 yo boys, tbh none of them are strong swimmers and although they can ride a bike, it took them a while to get there. But I suspect the difference is that we have encouraged these activities whereas your nephew is left to his own devices, with his parents giving themselves a pat on the back for putting a parental lock on the iPad.

It doesn't sound particularly abnormal, aside from the cutlery issue. It does, however sound as though he could do with less screen time, more exercise, a better diet and doing some activities to build and develop his confidence. He sounds normal, but is a product of his environment.

Sorry about your nephew, I don't know how you could raise your concerns without causing upset. As pp asked, are there other family members that could back you up? Would you be prepared to get more involved in his life having him over or taking him out for the day some weekends and encouraging him to be more active? I can't see how you could just turn a blind eye and not intervene as you clearly care and rightly so. Good luck!

My two nephews are a bit younger. They can eat with cutlery although the table manners aren't exactly finely tuned. They ride bikes and play football and games like Jenga. One will sulk if he loses. Have to be prised off any screens. Toilet trained and dry at night for years. Won't wash until forced. Can tie laces. One will read. One still needs a night light. Will eat most 'family' familiar foods. Both talk articulately, predominantly about Fortnite, dinosaurs and farts.
Your nephew sounds like he's just been made a big baby of. The poor boy will be in high school soon, bedwetting, crying over the slightest thing, unable to use a fork and thinking it's normal for his mum to wash him. I think you'll have to put on a tough skin and have a serious talk with your brother.

If my 10 year old were sent to relatives alone for the first time, expectations were different, and they seemed a bit exasperated by him, he would definitely cry at times (wouldn't anyone?). Was his mum in hospital? Even routine, that might worry a child.
Mine does the lying about toilet and teeth, and wets the bed sometimes still. He doesn't smell though. He does wash but doesn't need deodorant yet. Puberty is usually later in boys.
He also wouldn't have arrived with a device. He doesn't have one. He can swim and ride a bike, and loves the park, but might not love it on his own without friends to play with. Did he have a bike to use?
He can use a knife and fork, and as he doesn't have a device, he talks about all sorts of things other than gaming. He is fussy with food but has never had any fizzy drinks.
Mine can't tie his shoelaces.
I'd say the tearyness and fussiness are normal in my experience. The gaming/screen time is normal too for many kids to be honest. This would be different to your experience with your girls which is a decade ago. Children are expected to be on screens for homework and all sorts now, and 10 year olds were encouraged onto them because of Covid, during their early years.
I hope he didn't see that you found him embarrassing.

I have a ten year old boy and sometimes I worry he has a bit too much screen time, and that he can't tie his shoelaces but she is nothing like this!!

My ds would watch screens all day if we let him but we don't. The food stuff and the falling to bed to a dvd stuff would worry me.

He obviously not she

Not normal at all. Poor kid

Sounds really sad , he is missing out on childhood
Are they too busy for him ? Sounds almost neglectful

This is exactly what I came on to say. This is not normal behaviour for a 10 year old.

My 4 year old son sounds more independent.

I'd tread carefully though OP, could you mention it privately to a grandparent?
Surely the school would have picked up on some of these quirks, if there is indeed some type of delay or disability then they may have highlighted them already but your DB just hasnt said anything.

Sorry op just properly read your update. Re: grandparents

Primary school teacher here.

I am terrified by those who are saying it is 'normal' and accepting this but it explains a lot.

It should not be normal. It is worrying.

Unfortunately some parents/adult seem to think their role in a child's life is to aimlessly pander to them. Thus, this child has been stunted at a stage of development equivalent to about a 3yo.

Imagine what is (not) happening in terms of his brain development.

Parents role is to provide support but also challenge, guidance, leadership... To RAISE children, not just... look on as they gradually grow older!

I almost never take such a dogmatic stance on here but I really am stunned that some people think this is/should be the norm.

This is not 'normal'.

I have a 10 year old DS. He has ASD and poor co-ordination. He is socially and emotionally behind his peers.

He is a bit awkward with a fork and knife but nowhere near the extent of your DN.

He will shower and dress himself. I do have to remind him to brush his teeth every morning and evening but he then does it.

He can ride a bike and swim. He plays sport outside of school. He will never be a natural at any sport but he wants to try.

Maybe there is something diagnosed or undiagnosed with your DN but I think this is mainly a parenting issue. The parents sounds lazy and uninterested in him. It's really sad that he eats on his own 7 days a week. They might not even know that he can't use cutlery!

Majority of that is not normal, although bed wetting can be an issue foe some dc older than 10 it's not something they can control

Thanks for the update OP.

It’s clear that this is more likely to be a lifestyle problem for all three members of this family if all three are overweight and all they do, other than work and school, is online.

I think you really do need to make a small intervention for the sake of your nephew.
Decide first, how much you are able to be involved in being with your nephew or having him with you. You need to examine how committed you can realistically be to helping him.

Then when you have your brother alone, put just one of your (very valid) concerns to him and tell him what you are prepared to do to help him.
Start with a few positives about your nephew first…..how great it is that he’s so good at maths, how good it is that he’s no trouble at home but then go on to say that you have noticed he isn’t as healthy as he could be due to inactivity and restricted diet and that this means things will be harder for DN once he starts senior school.
Suggest you all go out more as a family now that it’s summer and take an interest in the outdoors to help him stay off his screens. Mention that passive parenting is ok but only to a certain a certain extent and that as his dad he could maybe guide him towards a more active lifestyle to spark his curiosity and get motor skills going so that he can fit in better at big school where sports lessons will be compulsory.

OP, there are a few things you could kindly suggest to start the long process of normalising DN’s skills and kick-starting his development if you think about it.
Even the smallest intervention might help DN in his young self-awareness and help him take a step forward away from the babying and pandering that his mum gives him.

Suggest meeting at a beauty spot/National Trust garden/favourite beach for a short family walk and a picnic.
Suggest meeting at a (non-fast-food) pub restaurant with cutlery for a nice meal so that he can notice how others eat but not feel bad.
Suggest a coding club to enhance his maths skills even more, and to make new friends with like-minded children.
Invite him for the weekend for a special activity…anything to widen his experience ..eg going to a football match, trying a new hobby together, camping in the garden for an overnight for star gazing, going to a hotel for an overnight to see a science museum.
Buy him a second hand bike and take him somewhere safe with nobody watching as you teach him to ride it.
Buy him new trainers with laces and shoe him how to tie a bow.
Teach him chess and suggest a chess club for him.
Research a good weekend destination for both families to go to together, not too far away with things a ten year old boy might like; A scenic steam train ride. A red kite feeding station. A spectacular waterfall. A street food festival. A boat trip. A castle. A haunted house. A crazy golf course. A cliff walk.

I know how hard it is to engage with a delayed development child but it’s not his fault. He just needs to experince a different way of living and communicating.
Accepting him the way he is until you can find a way to motivate him is vital. Gradually weaning him away from his screens will take time.
Becoming his friend, letting him know you like him, understanding his needs and taking him forward a few small steps. Showing care for him, modelling practical life skills, playing cricket in the garden, teaching him a new card or board game, doing a jig-saw puzzle together, asking him to help mow the lawn or tidy the garage, check the oil in the car, water the plants, going to the cinema or theatre, making a fire outside, or building a den ……any opportunity for fun, movement and conversation, no matter how small, will help him grow a little bit more independence.
Eating every meal at the table and letting him hear interesting conversation, watching a tv nature program and asking him what he thinks.
Getting him started on Harry Potter books by reading the first few chapters to him.
Small steps at a time with lots of praise and encouragement along the way.

Hopefully, you can make a few suggestions without causing upset and drama in the family. At least you will have tried to lead the way.

Most of that isn't normal (I have a 9 year old boy).

It sounds like no-one is paying him much attention and although it probably doesn't meet the threshold for neglect, he is only getting a very basic level of care. Difficult to know what to do about it though. Would you be willing to have him to stay more often, and try to take him to the park, swimming etc to increase his range of life experiences?

The need for daily reminders to clean teeth and wash is pretty normal TBH.

75% of this sounds like my sensory, hypermobile, dyspraxic, autistic, dyslexic son. He hasn't naturally picked up many of these skills, and it's taking years and years of constant modelling and nudging to make slow progress. We eat pretty much every meal at the table- to the extent of taking a table/ bench set camping, and using cutlery is still a total minefield because of the difficult interaction of autistic frustration, dyspraxic inaccuracy and physical fatigue from hypermobility.

In a child of these traits with parents that don't have much clue and are very hands-off, it's a disaster for the child's development.

I work with children of this age range (including going on camps) and as a package, it's not normal for NT children with parents who have age appropriate expectations. There may be isolated traits though.

My experience is that schools don't pick these things up well. DS's diagnoses came from our concerns, not school's. Even with diagnoses, school's interest is pretty limited. DS was diagonsed late 2019, so just pre-Covid. We made it to Occupational Therapy in Feb 2020... then any follow-up just died off.

To get anywhere the parents have to be willing to see the issues, push professionals and to make changes to match their child's needs.

DS is a bit older and a bit more capable than the DN described, but that's because of so many years of trying to push these skills, and valuing exercise, swimming lessons and sticking it out despite slow progress. Leaving him to it would have been a disaster for his development as he has no self-motivated desire to keep up with his peers.

The DN's needs aren't being met and to get anywhere, his parents need to realise that this is not a normal package of skills and behaviours.

No, my 10 year old son is not like this. He is independent in the sense he can run himself a bath, choose his own clothes and get dressed . Will pack up his things when going on holidays etc. The food issue seems to be a lack of being taught how to use a knife and fork, These are basics that should have been taught years ago. My son has a varied range of subjects to talk about so not normal to talk only of Fortnite. Most 10 year old boys I know play football, on their bikes, Lego, football stickers collection, drawing etc. it's not all games and iPads .