Ukraine Invasion: Part 49

[MagicFox]

Welcome to our 49th thread with the usual thanks to all regular contributors and lurkers 🇺🇦

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We’re on it!

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@Igotjelly ✊

On full alert for 🐿️🐿️ and 🤖🤖

I guess this year having two major western elections (UK and US) means we’ll be seeing some interesting interfering.

Looking at the mad thread about being lined up for something, it’s amazing how many of the posters have less than a week’s posting history…..

Clearly it’s meaningless as they won’t win but this is interesting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpddxy9r4mdo.amp

It’s a sign of getting older (!) but I recently said to friends that I thought national service could be a good idea. Not the military one, but more civil service. So many young people drifting and, IMO, often going to uni a year older means they get more out of it having a bit of life context for the concepts they’ll study. It’ll never happen though.

https://x.com/PickardJE/status/1794479406766784548

I couldn’t agree more, but having had a quick look at the threads already running on this anyone daring to show an interest is getting piled on!

I think it's a cynical ploy with no actual economic reality behind how it would be put in place outlined. I'm not against the idea but I'm not keen on anything mandatory and would prefer it to be voluntary (and even competitive as per the Finnish model)

Also very behind the civil one, less so military

The Naitonal Service has been floated by a Prime Minister very behind in the polls, after he called an election. So mostly people don't see it as anything more than a last-ditch, empty attempt at electioneering.

Which may well be true.

However there is another possibility. I'm not saying Sunak's got the integrity or guts for this, but it's possible that, having been warned by the security folks there may be a need for more military (particularly after all the austerity cuts), he has used what he expects to be his last days in office to broach a difficult subject. This could open the discussion in the country, never mind who comes after him.

I'm afraid I think you give him far too much credit

The fact he called for it is a significant step.

I don't see how it could possibly work militarily - how the hell would UK military cope with an influx of young men and women? It isn't fit for purpose as it is, which is no reflection on them and a big reflection on the Conservatives.

Actually I think the best thing for the country right now, given what it's facing, is if Keir Starmer said exactly the same thing. It would be -action- and it would make people realise that peace is not necessarily a permanent thing.

I don't agree with compulsory service I'm afraid. And it doesn't speak to any noble position on Sunak's part. It's a symptom of Tory underfunding of the armed forces and an appeal to a particular kind of voter (ie not young people)

The UK and its destructive media is complacent and has been for decades. This announcement may actually get a few people thinking -why-.

Good piece by Lawrence Freedman on this issue, just published now:

Is Labour ready on foreign policy?

samf.substack.com/p/is-labour-ready-on-foreign-policy?utm_medium=reader2

The Armed Forces charity SSAFA found that 2/3 were in favour of it in 2020.

Nobody in the armed services I speak to thinks it's a good idea

I think it’s worthy of a good discussion and I think it could gain some traction.

There is no social contract to enable any goodwill from throwing hundreds of thousands of young people into a carcass that was once a military. The whole system has been privatised and sold off and grifted away over the last few decades.

We have one (1) munitions factory. We are losing our ability to manufacture our own steel at all, and can no longer manufacture bespoke items of war like tank barrels. Our procurement fiascos are somehow worse than America’s (the carrier, the F-35, Ajax, literally anything small arms) and many bases have been closed or reduced in size and defunded to the point where you can’t even have adequate accommodation or food service.

We are about as far from being anywhere like war ready as can be, and the dickheads in charge think we can push the “fight a war” button and immediately unveil the BEF, air force and navy we had circa 1944 or something.

None of this will change, because unlike Putin, no one has balls in the West to tell capital to get behind national plans or fuck off and be nationalised. So long as the refrain is “what’s in it for me?” for the megacorps that run the modern MIC and have a revolving door with government, we will remain in this paralysis and wonder why our enemies on the global stage are kicking our arses. It’s liberal ideology wanting to have the best force, just not wanting to, you know, spend money on it and take charge.

It’s amusing, and also kinda scary.

It hasn't gone down well with the military and veterans that I know either.
Besides which, the government can't process the people that want to join up, how are they going to cope with those that don't.

Don’t you think that some of the problems you highlight might be aided by some additional help then? I don’t think anyone in Government, regardless of party, thinks we can simply push a “fight a war” button, as has been endlessly discussed on these very threads for months and months.