Family rift - How often should local relative see 85yo parent?

[Curlewwoohoo]

85yo parent lives in own home, alone, as they have for decades. Recently their adult child moved 'back' to the same village. Adult child was recently divorced and their own children had flown the nest. They had friendships in the village. They are seeing their parent once a week for lunch. Do you think this is enough? Because no one seems to be happy! I think it's a problem of misaligned expectations from the get go...

If your oarent is the retire ine an hour away honestly they could go once a week.
Your grandmother needs to cop on if dc1 is working they just dont have the time.

Not sure why your aunt (?) moved back to the village when her mum (?) is a difficult person with whom she doesn't have a close relationship, it was bound to cause issues. The grandma is unreasonable to expect visits several times a week from someone who works full time and has a busy life and the siblings who live further Away should visit regularly too. The one who is an hour away could visit fortnightly easily.
If the grandma is actually abusive (suggested by the grandchildren not wanting to see her?) then maybe the aunt should move back out of the village.

Sounds tricky and you need to be wary about getting embroiled in all of the sibling dynamics. I would do what you can reasonably do in terms of visits and leave the adult children to sort out their parent. Otherwise it will get left to you or you will overstep and create more issues. The aunt in the village needs to be really clear about her boundaries by the sounds of it.

She's not abusive by any stretch. I don't agree with my cousins stance but then I'm not privy to everything.

The grandma wants the visits on her terms - come and visit me more often, without considering the life of adult child 1. The elderly parent is stubborn and won't return to her previous social activities, feels lonely and is trying to manipulate the situation and guilt trip (create division?) by crying to the other adult children. This really isn't great behaviour. And very unfair on adult child 1.

Could the grandma have the beginnings of dementia?
My MIL has become very selfish and demanding of what other people should do for her (from her care home) e.g. "you have no idea what I've missed out on because you're working and can't see me"

She's not abusive by any stretch

You don't know that. Me and my DSis were hot and refused food as DC often. Many family members were completely oblivious. Not sure even my DF knew exactly what was happening whilst he was at work.

Happy to tell them now though if anyone suggests we see her more

I think everyone should visit as frequently as is doable for them and resist criticising others. For example I would have thought the retired person an hour away could make a weekly visit, but obviously I don't know their health or financial situation. If I were in the person living nearby position a weekly visit would seem like a big enough commitment to me. I am not a natural carer and would resent being thrust into that role.

The root cause is that granny is lonely, so perhaps someone- maybe a retired person with more time on their hands - could investigate what social groups are available, often with transportation laid on, or getting a cleaner in for company, the family could arrange a joint response.

*hit

How won’t that help? You said above it’s company they want and that’s what you can give.

I am with rookiemere on this. Having been the couple closest geographically to MIL, I was more than a little peeved when others, who visited infrequently, suggested I spent more time with her.

Op, you cannot fix this so please do not try to put pressure on your extended family member to do more.

Personally I think Grandma is doing ok , a weekly visit plus someone close by for emergencies. Having been that person for my MIL, any more would have been sheer hell for me.

You do what you feel comfortable with , then butt out of other people’s lives.

Mischance you might not. But the OP's elderly family member does.

If that’s her only social engagement of the week, it’s pretty sad. It depends how mobile and active she is. My 82 yo MIL moved to my village last year. She picks DS up once a week from school and
then DH might pop round once in the week. She is very busy through the week with social groups, though.

And also I feel indignant that retired people are telling a working person how she should spend her little amount of free time.

So she’s just a stubborn lady wanting everything her way with no regard to their lives. Sounds lovely.

She had groups and friends and she refusing to attend those things and then calling and wailing about being lonely. It’s her own fault.

The retired or semi retired shouldn’t be moaning to the only sibling working full time that she needs to visit more. If they care so much they can finger our bums and go. Nice and easy to spend others time or money for them, yet they never want to themselves.

I feel a little sad that in western societies we think it's OK to leave vulnerable and lonely old people alone for days at a time. It seems that the only thing that matters is that the adult child is not inconvenienced in any way. We're a very individualistic society and we're encouraged to do what we want above everything else. My in-laws are Indian and I see totally different attitudes in their culture. An 85 year old woman would never be left alone for days. If it's a pain the arse for her children to visit her then tough. They'd do it because it's the right thing to do.
If your parents have been abusive or are just generally not very nice people then fine. Don't feel any obligation to visit them. However, I think of my own elderly mother. She is the kindest, most loving and humble person I know. I simply couldn't sleep at night knowing she was spending day after day sitting alone and not talking to anyone. Yes I'd encourage her to make friends and join clubs etc. but let's be honest, not all 85 year olds will be able to do this. At the very least I'd pop round a couple of times after work in the week for a chat and a cup of tea, then spend time with her at the weekend too. I wouldn't do this out of a sense of duty but because I love her. I realise not everyone has a nice relationship with their parents.
And before everyone says it always falls to the women to do this, it's not the case in my circle. It was my grandmother's son who used to visit her every day after work. He was the one who found her when she collapsed. It's my male neighbour who moved in with his octogenarian mum to be her carer (she also has two daughters nearby). My DH and my brothers visit their parents as frequently as their daughters.

Depends on relationship and what's right. My Mum lives nearby, she's very difficult - falls out with everyone, talks at you the whole time all about her, complains if you're not totally focused on her - it's very stressful and not good for my blood pressure - I have to take a step back for my own well being. She doesn't know half of what happens in our lives, things like DD nearly died a couple of years ago and DD has recently had a cancer scare because it's all about her.

And actually the reasons you give for not visiting as pretty similar to those your DA has. I would try and see your DGM more regularly and encourage a little understanding from your own DM. Maybe suggest to your DM that you both see her every other weekend?

@Awrite

'Once a week is plenty.

Those relatives who are unhappy should visit more themselves.'

This!

Actually threads like these make me slightly grateful that I am an only DC.

I do as much as I feel I can for my elderly DPs, but I'm sure many wouldn't see it as enough. I found it hard enough when my US cousins came over last year and one started on about their house needing cleaned - it's not unsanitary and DM refuses to get a cleaner.

I feel sorry for your Daunt.Her siblings should be grateful someone lives near their DM for emergencies and grateful she is taking her out once a week.

Why do you want dm to step back further? Is there an impact on their own health or wellbeing by meeting once a week?

I think your post is all over the place. This is not a 'Western society' selfishness epidemic thing. As you pretty much said later on, those with good relationships with family tend to visit them and care about them without obligation or expectation. When that's not the case there tends to be a reason, as you also pointed out! We have similar in our family - we spend far more time with and care for some of our elderly relatives than some of the others and there are very defined reasons why - we ignore the ones who have been bloody awful all of our lives! That doesn't make us terrible and neglectful, it's self-defence and common sense.

In this case, unfortunately, it sounds like the grandmother has pretty much brought this upon herself. Yes, she may have the beginnings of dementia or something else but that doesn't change the adult child's obligations in her own life, to her work or other family members. You can't force a relationship that isn't there, you can't force love and care where the foundations are shaky. I feel very sorry for the adult child here, who seems to be getting emotionally pounded on all sides.

I totally agree and I think you’ve put this really well. As I get older I’m starting to see things differently and have a greater understanding of the loneliness my mother experienced in her last few years. I thought she was overly demanding but when I look back I honestly don’t think she was.

I do understand that everyone’s situation is different though so people commenting here may have had awful relationships with unsupportive, neglectful or abusive parents. In these cases I absolutely can see how resentful someone might be about giving up their time to visit.

I grew up on a farm and there were lots of elderly relatives nearby (<5mins walking distance) and they all popped past the farmhouse pretty much daily for ~30 mins or so each day. We'd see the nearby elderly folk that weren't relatives weekly (e.g. taking them shopping). My Mum is widowed now and she sees family members who live locally regularly, it would be an unusual day when she saw no-one. She's still active in her late 70s and has lots of activities and friends.

But in all these cases the old person has put the work in when younger, helping out the younger generations. So, for example, my Mum did wrap around care for my DN when they were little so she has a close relationship with them so they like popping past to see her now they are older, she (still) cooks lunch for DBro when SIL is working (should point out he can cook but this started when she was widowed and was as much for her as for him), looked after cats and dogs when people were on holiday etc. In a rural community when people live close by each other all their lives and have the flexibility of self employment or PT work this happens naturally. FT work or living far away interrupts that.

I would also like to say - as it often comes up about how people are entitled not to see abusive relatives as much - sometimes it doesn't matter how kind or wonderful the DP is, it seems like the Daunt cannot magic up more time in her diary unless she neglects her dogs, jacks in or reduces her job ( will the retired siblings make up her income), stops her own social life or neglects her own personal needs.
My friend does a lot for her DPs - up every weekend and holiday period, has basically put her life on hold. Cancelled every planned mini break for the last 3 years and some pre covid as well, might see her once or twice a year for a meal if I'm lucky. Fine as that's her choice, but when the inevitable happens, she will then need to rebuild her life from scratch.

I'm not elderly or widowed.

I am severely disabled and in constant physical pain due to an accident and I am divorced.

Yes I get lonely.

But it's not the responsibility of my children to solve this. My loneliness is my problem.

My kids are younger and just starting to make their way in life. I try to see them regularly by going to see them and booking shows etc to see together.

It's scary to try to build a new life and make new friends (I moved house following the divorce to a completely new area) but at the end of the day if I am lonely it is my problem to solve.

Yes I'd hope that my kids want to see me but if they have busy adult lives they cannot fill my whole life.