Thread 13 - TalkLair: “I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.”

[Kucinghitam]

(Previous thread 12).

Looks like spring has sprung! Tulips, apple blossom and early hay fever are upon us. In the TalkLair, we remain hunkered down keeping cosy and warm, because "something something 'til May is out". The hearth is glowing, the walls covered in dubious artwork, books by non-approved authors line the shelves, rugs are down on the floors (and assorted pets curled up on them).

We just won’t mention the gnawed bones of our prey over there in the corner of the cave…

'sectarian' and 'nationalist' are not synonyms.

I know, and I do not use them as such. All nationalist parties are sectarian, but not all sectarian parties are nationalist. And the same for unionists

How are nationalist parties sectarian? I see sectarianism as being about religion, which is why I'd have some doubts about any party whose membership overlaps with the Orange order, since that specifically bars Catholics because of their religion.

Political sectarianism, not religiois sectarianism. (Although it does definitely tend to align with religion in this case.)

All parties here have to declare as unionist, nationalist or other. Any not declaring 'other' is defining itself by a single political question and is therefore sectarian.

The Greens, for example, are an all-Ireland party which implies they lean nationalist. But they declare as 'other' - it's not their single defining policy, so I would say they aren't a sectarian party.

I understand your point, but would be inclined to describe it as identitarian rather than sectarian, to distinguish from the actual religion-based sectarian discrimination that plagued NI for so long (still does in places, I suppose they're building the bonfires even now). Bring back the spirit on 1798.

Of course it's a bit like the old 'But are you a Protestant atheist or a Catholic atheist?' joke - however officially neutral a party is, it will still be seen as being on one side of the other. Alliance is the 'unionist neutral' balancing the Greens.

Sectarian is easier to spell and pronounce - for me identitarian risks going the way of bananananana. It's all mess, whatever you call it.

Bonfire building is indeed going on. Fortunately our nearest one doesn't go big, but unfortunately they don't believe in pallets. So far the heap contains 2 3-piece suites, a mirrored bathroom cabinet, 4 divan beds, a dining set with fake-leather chairs, 2 doors, a set of plastic garden chairs, and several plastic bags of carpet offcuts and tins of paint. I'll be keeping the windows closed even though it's at the far end of town.

My Belfast pal (Methodist, grew up Presbyterian, not a sectarian bone in her body) used to roll her eyes at Alliance - I suspect she voted SDLP, though she lived in firmly Unionist if not Loyalist East Belfast and they were never going to get in, even in the old days. What she really wanted was an old-fashioned left-wing option of the sort that was always scuppered in NI by the sectarian thing (quite deliberately, to ensure the workers wouldn't unite against the boss class), and saw Alliance as just too 'naice' to be doing with.

I really miss our long conversations.

God bonfires. If we ever have a united Ireland that will be a battle - I can't even have a little garden fire to get rid of weed roots here - depths of the country, no neighbours to annoy.

What she really wanted was an old-fashioned left-wing option of the sort that was always scuppered in NI by the sectarian thing

Her and me both.

I learnt yesterday that my DS is in fact getting married on Monday. 🙁

That's rather short notice! Did you know it was happening at some point, or is it a complete surprise?

I knew it was scheduled for July, that's all.

Congratulations to him @duc748 and I hope they'll be very happy together.

It’s not easy for you @duc748 but raise a glass to them on the day in celebration and hold onto to the thought that they’re doing it their way.

That sounds very confronting, @duc748. I hope you don't feel too bad about it.

When my dad and stepmother got married, when I was in my late teens, none of us kids were told in advance and they only had two witnesses. It felt weird at the time but they were so happy and excited when they got home that no one could be cross with them.

It's not how I would have preferred it, but they are adults, and it's their life. And we've always been close; just two weeks ago, had a great weekend with DS in London, seeing a live band.

Even so, I can understand feeling a bit glum. But congratulations to them.

Hope everyone’s doing OK. I haven’t felt much like posting but do catch up from time but then have the dawning realisation that it’s probably been months since I said hello.
Bees sound alarming.

it’s too hot!

Swap? It's chilly and raining here.

Think I was caught out in unexpected 28 degree heat earlier. It’s cooled down a bit now, but has been muggy for days. However after the non existent summer we’ve had so far it was probably churlish to complain.

I've just accidentally (as in clicked without thinking) watched 5 minutes of the Norn Irn leaders' live TV debate on the BBC website. When the DUP man struck up with some justification for the country having had no government for 3 years (as I understood it, it was everyone else's fault and nowt to do with them), there was considerable laughter from the audience.

We need more of that.

@duc748 that sounds really hard. I was once a witness at a wedding where the bride and groom had no guests - my mum and I were literally stopped in the street by a member of the registry office staff and asked if we'd mind. It was actually an incredibly moving thing to be involved in and I have always hoped that the marriage turned out very happy.

They will have 'guests'; they are going away for the weekend with a bunch of friends. I think to be asked to be witnesses would be lovely, though!

I am in the depths of gloom. I just listened to the first fifteen minutes of the presidential debate and Biden is gabbling and sounding whispery, and Trump is just lying outright about his record because nobody is fact checking. This feels like the most importan presidential election of my lifetime and I am in fear and trembling in case Trump wins, but anybody who hasn't been following things might well believe him.

I couldn't bear to watch any more and switched it off. I'll read the analysis tomorrow from people with fewer blood pressure issues than me.

I've heard bits of it on the World Service. Biden was dire. His cognitive decline is becoming more obvious. Trump was also dire but better - far from great thobut - cognitively which is going to do for Biden. He should never have stood for a second term. Is it too late for him to stand aside to allow a more capable candidate?

In terms of what they were arguing about and Trump's egregiously unchallenged lies, it was an embarrassment as well. They were like two old drunks in a bar having the same argument that they've had every night for decades with the argument getting less coherent with the passing of time. It made me sad because it had me thinking about my beloved R, my friend/wife/sisterwife who nearly lost her mind during the first Trump presidency. She took her own life in April last year and for the first time I was glad she wasn't here to see that because it would have broken her. At least she escaped being broken by them even if she didn't escape being broken. I miss her so much.