Cost of living in the UK v the birth rate

[Potterpot]

I was reading an article where a young couple living in an expensive part of the country said they wouldn’t be able to afford having kids so they’ve made peace with that decision. I can understand why, especially after seeing on another thread that some people’s full time nursery bill costs £1600 a month for one child. The UK average property price at current rates is £1300 a month. That’s £3000 gone, before you’ve even thought about council tax, utility bills, food shopping, travel, saving, disposable income.

I understand being able to make the short term sacrifice financially to afford one child.

Unless one parent can be a SAHP or have significant family help, how are people affording two? Do you have to be high earners for this lifestyle now?

No but I know people who have done it no problem. So your work place has abusive anti-women company policies, not everyone does

@ either you bought your property pre 2008 and have low housing costs or you have no concept of being on a low income.

It's not at all difficult to understand that some couples literally can't afford to have one or two children.

I think this is the answer for parents of older children. You can wfh when children are at school. You can do school pick up, settle them down with homework etc and carry on working. You are saving money on after school care. I think it's very difficult with younger children.

I agree with this too. We definitely had a serious dip in lifestyle when our two were little, but they were/are worth it.

Where we live (middle of the UK) most people have two children (appreciate it is not always a choice; those with one generally wanted another and couldn’t). Where my friends live down south, most seem to just have one.

They didn't do it "no problem". It's not possible. The work or child suffered. Probably both. What's "anti women" is your expectation that they be able to do two workloads at once. Ridiculous.

i said people not women, meaning i know men AND women who have done it. reading comprehension

Then why would the policies be "anti women"? My comprehension is just fine thanks.

Can't you find something more worthwhile to be enraged about? People who choose to work from home while raising their kids is not it

Blunt honesty.

I have not read the last bit of the thread attentively so please bear with me. DH and I met in our 30s, married at 36, and sort of assumed we wouldn't have any kids. He had a baby business, and I was a freelance and only got paid when I had a project. At 42, I had a baby twinge and was pregnant a week later. We had just bought our house, that we still live in (but will sell in the next two/three years to downsize and relocate closer to family and friends). Very happily all went well, DC was great, healthy, and I took six months off work (on three months SMP of £97 per wk). Then I went back to work, planning on three days a week.

It turned out that my work only existed if I had total flexibility to drop everything and travel worldwide at 24 hours notice, so we employed a nanny with her own child who came to work with her, and DH looked after baby evenings and nights.

I could not claim back ANY of my childcare costs -- although the cost of a secretary would have been allowable against my earnings. Without wanting to boast, I earned well. But because of that I ended up working much less, to the point that when I worked the better part of five days a week (and long unsocial hours) I worked 33% of them to pay the nanny, and 33% to pay HMRC and I ended up with 34%. After seven or so years of this, at 50, DH's business was established, so I quit and became the SAHP and the oil-in-the-machine that kept the machine on the road. So now I manage two tiny pension funds and desperately miss the intellectual/business thrill that work once gave me.

Mumsnet has saved my sanity, because it is the only place where I find people like me, and a lot of contradictory voices to joust with too. Don't get me wrong. I adore my one DC, and wouldn't change any of my choices. But I am not certain how I would advise my younger self to proceed. I think I would do the same again and life has been kind. But over the 15 years I have hung out here, there have been periods of serious ill-health for both of us (heart/cancer) and all the issues of ageing/dying parents.

So, thank you MNetters. For the handbag trivia, and the serious conversations, and all the bits in between. Take a bow, everyone.

I remember trying to work from home in the pandemic while I had a small child with me, it was a disaster! and if I got things wrong it could have meant multi million pound fines for my company!

It makes a big difference where in the country you are for not only housing costs but nursery costs too.
However, most families I know don't both work full time, 9-5. One works part time, or they both flex or condense hours into 4 days. Or work a weekend.
I work 4 days a week, but 1 is a Saturday so DH looks after the children. We are actually having a 3rd, on a £50k wage. We do have a great fixed rate mortgage for a couple more years and my job is extremely flexible and has a good hourly rate. But actually, in our area 3 kids isn't that unusual. A lot of families at our school have 3.

No but I know people who have done it no problem. So your work place has abusive anti-women company policies, not everyone does*
*
How on earth is not allowing WFH whilst caring for an under 12 or a dependent elderly person an abusive anti-women policy? You can't do a good job of either doing both - the lockdowns proved that. And it's far more likely to be abusive to the child/elderly person having their needs ignored whilst you're WFH. If you're being paid to do a job, then you need to do the job. Of the people I manage I am very happy to discuss flexible hours so they can minimise childcare costs (eg by working compressed hours) but not WFH whilst the child is there.

Some people must have piss easy jobs if they think it’s possible to work with a toddler running round your ankles. Either that or they lock their kids in a dog crate 9-5. 🤦🏻‍♀️

It makes me so angry that so many people are apparently WFH with kids in the background.
WFH is slowly being taken away by companies, and this is why. So thanks for fucking it up for the rest of us.

Would you mind citing some examples of companies stating that WFH has been removed because of children in the background? Just two or three will do.