Cost of living in the UK v the birth rate

[Potterpot]

I was reading an article where a young couple living in an expensive part of the country said they wouldn’t be able to afford having kids so they’ve made peace with that decision. I can understand why, especially after seeing on another thread that some people’s full time nursery bill costs £1600 a month for one child. The UK average property price at current rates is £1300 a month. That’s £3000 gone, before you’ve even thought about council tax, utility bills, food shopping, travel, saving, disposable income.

I understand being able to make the short term sacrifice financially to afford one child.

Unless one parent can be a SAHP or have significant family help, how are people affording two? Do you have to be high earners for this lifestyle now?

Look, I'm not saying everyone should move somewhere cheaper.

I like the north personally and I grew up here and I don't want a load of incomers!

But what I am saying is that there are whole areas of Britain where house prices aren't quite as mad as in the south, and that makes the whole financial situation of families there easier.

DSis manages as single parent in higher cost area due to HA housing - lucky she got it - and some past family help in unexpected dire times which has meant she in a higher paying job now.

I'm very sorry you were widowed and that does sound incredibly tough but...

When was this? £18000 a year wouldn't even cover mine or my friends annual mortgage or rent costs, let alone anything else! That's £1500 a month. How much were you paying in mortgage?!

But what I am saying is that there are whole areas of Britain where house prices aren't quite as mad as in the south, and that makes the whole financial situation of families there easier.

We did that - but those areas are getting fewer and fewer - there can be unpleasant trades off - secondary a huge issue and long commutes but yes if you can match up work and more affordable area it can work - does mean you are usually often further away from family help as well.

Depending on what local employment and wage levels are like, of course.

I agree with this too for most couples. I was a SAHP until DS was 3. There were no meals out, no nights out, no holidays, no beauty appointments beyond two haircuts a year, etc.

We've chosen to have one. People I know with 2 kids have all had them 3+ years apart to minimise two being at nursery at the same time. The exceptions have been a couple of families where the mother has given up work and had 2 close together then she went back to work once oldest in school. In my social circle I don't know any long-term stay at home parents (expensive city, you would need one parent to have an exceptionally high salary to afford that).

Fancy holiday- 2k a year, car- pcp- maybe £200 a month, and probably essential if you have children isn't going to make much of a dent really when average mortgage costs are upwards of £1000 a month. Do you think people have not done their own calculations and think ' I really want a child-if only I could stop drinking lattes from Starbucks I could do it? If your children are young adults, you lived on £18000 in a completely different time. People on a very low income also get a lot of help, so they probably would be able to have more children. People on a middle or average income will find it very difficult.

A fancy holiday is a lot more than £2k. I just looked at renting a bungalow in Norfolk for a week and it’s £1000. This seems to be the norm for a basic house.

Depending on whether you want to take the mean or median average earnings for a full time worker in the UK in 2024, it is £35-42k or £2355-£2764pm.

So, for those earning the average or above...
If one parent is earning, there are no childcare costs.
If both are full time, they have twice the above to work with. That's without any tax allowances, child allowance or free childcare etc.

It does not seem impossible. Even taking the £1300 mortgage (which I personally think is worse case scenario for a £240k house - based on my own house costing me that and my mortgage being £950) + £1600 childcare costs = £2900. If both parents work full time and earn the lower average that leaves £1800 per month for everything else.

Lots of people do not earn the average, of course. But the question about how people afford it is probably answered with: anyone earning the average or above probably can afford it. Whether they want to or not, is a different question.

You can get a week all inclusive for a couple in a 5* resort abroad for less than 2k, outside of school holiday times. That is absolutely shocking for a bungalow in Norfolk!!

I earn min wage, I haven't had a child because I can't afford one. If I did get pregnant I would have to terminate, it wouldn't even be a choice
My salary covers me and my bills with nothing left over so no money for nappies let alone childcare

This. It's a choice.

I think housing costs play a large part in how people's perceptions of affordability of having a one income family vary. In my current city a small house in need of renovation in a not great area is now around £350k. Crazy money. A better but still modest house (e.g. mid terrace, 3 bedrooms one being a box room, smallish garden, probably needing some modernising) in area with decent schools is upwards of £500k (many being way in excess of this - and these are not fancy houses whatsoever). Unless you have family money for a deposit, most people in their 20s/30s cannot pay that size of mortgage on one salary. I don't see how having one parent stay at some is an option for the majority.

Unfortunately, we are tied to school holidays and can’t seem to find anything under £3000. I would happily pay that but my husband refuses. However, I refuse to spend £1000 for a bloody bungalow in Norfolk.

I'll bet there are lots of people who have done exactly the same too. I agree that it's more that people don't want to give up their lifestyle, many a child grew up without a family car and yearly holidays, me included

But the OP’s question was how do you afford two children. You’ve only accounted for one.

Per person? I'm obviously cheap! But the point stands that people are looking at their income and deciding they can't do it. People who brought up their kids in the 80's are berating young people today for not having children, implying that they are so stupid they can't work out that by cutting costs they could live on one income. And maybe sitting at home constantly trying to entertain toddlers for free with no break because their partner is working such long hours to pay for the mortgage and all the bills is not a life people want. If society wants people to have children then we need to make it easier through things like subsidised childcare, employers embracing flexible working and equalisation of parental leave to enable more men to take their 6 months paternity leave.

It really really depends on where you are in the country. We are comfortable on 47k a year (DH working full time, I'm a student midwife) with one child, but our mortgage is only 400 a month and we manage to juggle DH's v flexible working hours to only need after school care.

Our house (standard 3 bed victorian terrace) cost 76k 8 years ago, we took a short mortgage and are slowly doing it up - but those houses don't exist everywhere!

Ah the PP who quoted £2k for a luxury holiday was suggesting (I think) that a couple having a luxury holiday wouldn't cost so much as to make a material difference in whether they could afford a child or not. Giving up the one £2k holiday a year isn't going to suddenly magic up enough money to make a child affordable, is how I took their comment.
I agree with you about a bungalow in Norfolk!

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Entitled much!

That made me laugh.

So, rent is just something you can negotiate is it? 😂

Where do you live that you can just phone up a nursery and make them an offer?

Yeah, most people are parking their Bentlys outside Starbucks, then booking yet another personal training session on their new iPhone while bemoaning the fact that kids are just expensive.

What is this "lifestyle" you speak of?

How we solved it was DH worked office hours Monday to Friday and I worked 1.5 days at the weekend and one evening a week, (18 hours in total).
That meant for a few years we were both either working or caring for our children. Yes it was hard but we made the most of our annual leave and it’s actually only for a few years.

Yes that's what I was saying. It won't make up an entire salary of one parent being at home either. Especially when you take into account employer contributions to pensions etc.

I know two families local to me where one partner works daytimes and the other works evenings in a supermarket.

I actually have the butler go to Starbucks for me, so I have more time to spend drinking the 16 Starbuckses per day that I would need to cut out to afford nursery.