Envy is everywhere

[Lentilweaver]

I don't know if anyone has felt this, but am sensing a deep envy in my immediate circle, between those who have less and those who have more. And then I come onto MN and half the posts are about posters not getting inheritance, or earnng less than they think they should, or not getting childcare from parents... It's so divisive and miserable.

People see SM and how everyone seems to be driving expensive cars, going on 4 holidays, children thriving, eating out. Go to a supermarket and there are a lot of expensive cars on the car park. Politicians are seemingly helping themselves to public money yet doing nothing about roads or hospitals. So people are somehow falling behind. It's seems to be the norm now to be envious and it's almost encouraged. Bigger better lips, hair. Expensive everything.

Does it have to be leather?

sorry wrong thread!

I saw a great quote that went along the lines of:

The left believes in tackling inequality which the right counters as the politics of envy.

The right believes in personal responsibility and ambition which the left counters as the politics of greed.

I completely agree with you. I had a couple of holidays & short breaks with dh & my dc last year which we had planned for ages as we hadn't been away since before covid.. We got very snide comments like "have you a money tree at the end of your garden" etc..

I also feel people are getting very competitive re childrens achievements & envy also directed at innocent kids.

I would also say that some sections of the wealthy are envious at well off working class & like to "keep them in their place".

Yeah, not gonna happen.

You're privileged compared to some people and not compared to others. Obviously.

"I think, back then it was easier to make something of yourself even if you didn’t come from much. You could “work your way up” in jobs by putting in the hours, being keen to get on and showing an aptitude. My DF worked as a bank clerk in the 1960s, as did one of his friends. DF wasn’t that interested in banking and left after a few years, his friend worked his way up to manager. Both had only A-levels, no degrees but could use their potential to gain promotion."

There was huge social mobility in the 50s. Sometimes people put their own individual success down to going to grammar school, but there were big changes in the economy and new types of jobs becoming available.

" The inheritors families often made the sacrifices"

But that's nothing to do with the inheritor! You're not a better person because your parents/antecedents had money to leave you. You're just lucky.

"But that still is not the fault of your privileged friends whose parents did think ahead. That is not luck, their parents almost always put plans in place."

Of course it's luck! Unless you believe unborn souls work hard to choose rich parents.

@Babyroobs The jealousy over disability benefits baffles me. My husband is in a wheelchair as a result of a degenerative disease, and several people over the years, including his own sister and a vile cousin of mine have made snide comments about his "free" car (which actually isn't free at all - he gives up a large proportion of his disability benefits for it and pays a large, non refundable advance payment when he changes cars). He would gladly give up the MS he's had for 40 years and not have the benefits.

Not really a surprise is it? Inequality in the UK has been steadily increasing since the 80s

Yes ..ive noticed it too. Entitlement... They think they 'deserve'. Im not a jealous person. I remember once id bought something and showed friend... She said 'how can you afford that?!' horrible it was...she thought she deserved it rather than me.. The jealousy was palpable. Not friends anymore

Agree. And it's really hard having to face all of the bills and shit going on alone. I'm not envious. I'm incredibly frustrated.

I think it’s all okay, unless you get someone bragging about it, and being insensitive to the situation that the other person is in. I’m comfortable financially, but still envious sometimes of others. It’s not always envy about monetary stuff - could be about someone’s family set up, their well behaved kids, more friends, lovely looks. There’s always something to be envious about.

It’s the people that check-in on FB everywhere they go that annoy me. Why is that their first thought? Instead of enjoying the event they’re thinking about letting everyone know what they’re doing and what fun they’re having. I find it so cringey but it’s obviously popular.

No one said they were a better person. Not one. Only you.

and the fact they may be fortunate to be born into a family who planned and were able to provide still doesn’t mean they have to tell you or anyone else they are lucky.

no one is entitled to this. A persons envy is theirs and theirs alone to manage. It is not for others to deal with their negative emotions.

all this nonsense of acknowledge your luck, don’t talk about your holidays, don’t show your car or home, take the sting of envy out it for those who struggle with envy.

simply no. If someone struggles with negative emotions, it is not in everyone else to pander to that. It’s for the envious person to own their shit and deal with it.

I am well read on social mobility and believe it is problematic as a concept. Many academic and sociopolitical essays on this. May be you can look it up. And IQ is luck of birth, not having a genetic propensity to addiction is luck of birth but there is both individual and collective agency that affects outcomes and determines results as well. That is what many on this thread have tried to explain

Some of which is on credit they may not be able to afford anyway....

@newmummycwharf1 ooooo missing the point of the thread bit but that first sentence sounds an interesting idea. I find myself disagreeing with that statement but I’m willing to be informed. Can you give some reading suggestions. (I am such a nerd).

edit: that social mobility is a concept that you think is problematic. My post wasn’t clear.

Yeah cos people work hard non stop, balance kids and work, yet still don't have enough money for holidays or nice things, or get to spend much quality time with family without being exhausted. Too right I'm envious :(

https://theconversation.com/britains-social-mobility-problem-has-been-misunderstood-education-is-not-the-great-leveller-109125

A sample above.

Greater social mobility means that people from poorer backgrounds have more chance to access higher education and professional jobs. In the absence of an expansion of those jobs, this will also involve some people from richer backgrounds moving down the economic scale, which is why I think, in isolation, social mobility is difficult metric and doesnt quite get to the root in the UK. And those in those positions, of course, become territorial

Focusing on social mobility (in isolation) would do little to reduce the gap in incomes between rich and poor; it could just mean that different people are poor. As seen by increasing University graduates from 10% to 40% - you just increase the number of graduates with debt and low paying jobs.

What we need is a focus on creating a similar economic environment to the 50s era - with economic growth and expansion and then policies that provide equality of opportunity (higher minimum wage not subsidised by government, more affordable housing etx). Then you would create net upward mobility. Anything else is musical chairs.

The data on social mobility in the UK is poor because there has been no economic expansion and focusing on social mobility is putting the cart before the horse.

@newmummycwharf1

What we need is a focus on creating a similar economic environment to the 50s era - with economic growth and expansion and then policies that provide equality of opportunity (higher minimum wage not subsidised by government, more affordable housing etx). Then you would create net upward mobility. Anything else is musical chairs.

++++

I think the single most important thing that could be done to improve social mobility is building more and more housing. Poor people are kept poor either through high mortgage payments or high rents.

Too many people have become very wealthy not through employment or starting their own businesses or adding value to the economy but instead through massive increases in either their or their parents houses + buy to let's + holiday homes etc.

Very informative post.
In days gone by Charles Dickens wrote his books to educate the rich.
The factor that poverty was so bad, did actually escape the rich, and that children were going up chimneys and worse....