Envy is everywhere

[Lentilweaver]

I don't know if anyone has felt this, but am sensing a deep envy in my immediate circle, between those who have less and those who have more. And then I come onto MN and half the posts are about posters not getting inheritance, or earnng less than they think they should, or not getting childcare from parents... It's so divisive and miserable.

The thing I have the biggeat issue with is how many people say they are lucky or priviledged to be able to cover basic living blah blah.
You are NOT fucking lucky or priviledged. You are what should be a NORM. Making it lucky and priviledged is pushing the border of norm down at least a step to not being able to afford basics. Now once a thing becomes a norm and everything above is considered special ... Well. It will stay a fucking norm and no one is pushed to do anything about and it's just accepted over time. And what happens after? The process repeats.

Covering basic bills when working ft is not and should absolutely fucking not ever be considered luck or privilege in UK.

I think, back then it was easier to make something of yourself even if you didn’t come from much. You could “work your way up” in jobs by putting in the hours, being keen to get on and showing an aptitude. My DF worked as a bank clerk in the 1960s, as did one of his friends. DF wasn’t that interested in banking and left after a few years, his friend worked his way up to manager. Both had only A-levels, no degrees but could use their potential to gain promotion.

Just doesn’t seem to happen now. I know loads of people of my parents generation (they are in their 70s) who started at a low level in their jobs and worked their way up. A lot of the time the employer would pay for night school/external qualifications. My DH has had his COSHH, NEBOSH, and countless other courses/qualifications paid for by his employer. I did manage to get my employer to pay for one of my qualifications last year.

It just doesn’t happen much now. Over 20 years ago after leaving school, I joined the civil service. Two chaps I worked with (we were all AA grade) wanted to do a computer programming diploma, they were refused as “That level of qualification wasn’t relevant to their job”. One of them appealed and was basically told that he’d have to be HEO level for them to consider it. He did it anyway and managed to get a better job in the NHS.

It’s much, much harder to get on now. And so many jobs don’t offer stability now. I worked with someone who used to delight in telling staff that we could be got rid of. I’m not saying it was hugely easy in the past, but certainly seemed easier to get a decently paid, stable job with advancement opportunities.

@LutonBeds

I think k a lot of it is now who you know not what you know .

You’re probably right @FunnyMoone . Not saying this never happened in the past but certainly seems to happen a fair bit now.

You need new friends.

I have had friends like this over the years, and dropped them eventually. I can’t bear the competitive element, everyone has difficulties, stresses and struggles.
The inequality in this country is far far less than so many others in the world, but it definitely exists. Friendships should be fun, supportive and meaningful.

It's a bit less when you were born - increasingly it's if you end up with an inheritance

this is the issue, you can work hard & get a good job but wages haven’t grown for years so the ones who get help often fare better.

Well, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.. and there's even less chance than 15-20 years ago of poorer people being able to improve their lot in life.

I've read at least a couple of threads on here recently from OPs stating they are inheriting or about to inherit a large sum of money (hundreds of thousands of pounds) that they don't really need because they've already paid off their mortgage and have well paying jobs. it's things like this that can cause huge feelings of unfairness.. people who are struggling, and will struggle for the rest of their lives probably, to pay the rent, and will never be able to afford to buy while there are families who are swimming in wealth they don't know what to do with.

I obviously don't think it's wrong for people to inherit large sums of money, but it does seem that it tends to happen more often to people who are all ready quite well off as it is, or have already had a lot of help from their family to help them on the property ladder.

It would perhaps sting a bit less if people who are fortunate enough to be very comfortable did not harp on about how they got their through hard work and being frugal..as there is an implication that everyone should just 'work hard' like them.. (only well off people can afford to be frugal, to be honest).

The inequality in this country is far far less than so many others in the world, but it definitely exists.

The UK UK has a very high level of income inequality compared to other developed countries.

Wealth in Great Britain is even more unequally divided than income.

It would perhaps sting a bit less if people who are fortunate enough to be very comfortable did not harp on about how they got their through hard work and being frugal..as there is an implication that everyone should just 'work hard' like them.. (only well off people can afford to be frugal, to be honest

ive genuinely never heard a wealthy person say that, hard work yes, but they may have worked hard. It doesn’t mean they think no one else did. There is no such implication unless you wish to think that. The statement is about ghe person saying it. Not the listener.

Social mobility is going backwards which is not a good thing.

@LutonBeds the first job I had, 30 years ago, the CEO had started at the very bottom rung of the ladder, valeting cars, and worked his way up. I can't imagine that there are many large national/international companies where that would be true nowadays ?

All of them, every single one, every single person starts at an entry level postion, no one starts at 18 or 20 or whatever at anything but.

@Janetime I think the point the poster was making is today the CEO wouldn’t start from a position of valeting cars. They would usually start on a graduate management training scheme or similar whereas the people doing the valeting would be different.

You cant demand how people feel about their situation. You can rationalise it as lucky and if that helps you gain perspective/feel better etc, great. They get to feel how they feel and no one is entitled to them acknowledging anything.

What kind of society demands people to acknowledge to others they feel a prescribed way??

You cant demand how people feel about their situation. You can rationalise it as lucky and if that helps you gain perspective/feel better etc, great. They get to feel how they feel and no one is entitled to them acknowledging anything.

What kind of society demands people to acknowledge to others they feel a prescribed way??

Do you think white privilege is made up?!

There is. Can think of 3 NHS Trusts with CEOs in the last 3 years who started as receptionists or porters. Not as common as before but still happens in various sectors. Also many more opportunities for flexible/self-training with high quality free/cheap online courses. More opportunities to make extra income from side hustles.

Times are definetely hard but there are also new opportunities out there that didnt exists in the 80s/90s/2000s.

Can think of 3 NHS Trusts with CEOs in the last 3 years who started as receptionists or porters.

A CEO who started as a porter? when did they start?

We (husband and I) have received help in early inheritance. I mention it when people ask rather than hiding it. I don’t think I should imply that we worked for something when actually we had a leg up.

There is white privilege but of course there are many white people that dont feel privileged for various reasons. White working class boys having the lowest educational outcomes - I am sure their families dont feel privileged despite the fact that by virtua of the colour of their skin, they will not be stereotyped in some scenarios.

I certainly dont demand that White people acknowledge their privilege to me or anyone else. We all have privilege depending on the context. No one is entitled to insist I am privileged based on their perspective. How odd

https://www.hee.nhs.uk/news-blogs-events/hee-news/first-ever-chairman-nhs-leadership-academy-announced

https://www.hsj.co.uk/homerton-healthcare-nhs-foundation-trust/trust-names-inspiration-former-receptionist-as-ceo/7036603.article#:~:text=Homerton%20Healthcare%20Foundation%20Trust%20has,years%20ago%2C%20to%20chief%20executive.

I have many faults (laziness, selfishness, grumpiness etc etc) but I can honestly say that envy isn’t one of them. I don’t understand competitive materialism, or resenting the success of others, and I never will. Time is more important to me than money or stuff could ever be.

I do recognise, however , that envy is a basic human emotion just like love, anger or greed. It can provide a powerful incentive for people to work hard, get ahead and better themselves.

Of the people that could leave inheritances, a reasonable amount do not. Leaving an inheritance that is not just leftovers, takes a wish to and planning starts years before it is received. Many of those who did not get an inheritance, could have had one or had much more.

Yes of course some families had no hope of doing so. But sometimes they should look at their own family
plans and dynamics instead of others that had forethought. They do not realise it takes planning and care not to just blow it all. The inheritors families often made the sacrifices.

This! The parents of the ones they envy could have had better things, back to back cruises, sold their house and blown it, taken equity release whatever. Instead they passed a lot of it on. If your parents couldn’t do that ok fine, but if they didn’t but could have, have a word with mum and dad. Other peoples family sacrifices are none of your business.

My dc are all getting deposits or flats gifted. I could have a bigger house, car, lifestyle with the money. I choose to give my excess funds to dc. It is my right and no better or worse than having a better lifestyle.

@newmummycwharf1 he started work before I was born!! We are talking about todays porters being tmw CEOs. 😁

Yup - before I was born too. But todays CEOs of large organisations are on average in their 50s or older. Today's porter may well become a CEO in 20 years. These CEOs became CEOs this year or in the last 6 years