What improves social mobility for children? Is it extracurriculars, education, money?

[Downwarddog2]

At the moment social mobility is very low, UK is officially in a recession. What can make a difference to a child's chances of climbing the social ladder. DH & I are working class but aspire to so much more for the dc aged 12 & 10. How do we go about it.
I'd like them to feel very comfortable in upper middle class company & in a corporate job if that's where they end up. DH & I are very ill at ease when in middle class/umc company either through school parents or work. I don't want our dc to be the same.

I think where you live and what schools kids go to are so important for what they pick up socially. I say this as someone working in education with young people who travel from differing areas.

Or, give your children a sense of the real value of working class people and their work. ( Revolutionary I know.)

Take them to political meetings, demonstrations etc so that they don't just absorb the culture of a corrupt, self serving 'high' class. Encourage them to think for themselves, argue, read and experience different cultures and ideas.

Encourage them to speak up for themselves ( and others), join a trades union, political party, campaign group etc where they will experience new, different ideas, actions etc. Maybe get some new inspiration, new hopes and ambitions than just social climbing.

Lots of good points here.

I'm going to add stable housing. For FSM kids that could mean living in social/council housing or their grandparent's social council/owned house with their siblings and parent. Not having to move every year into yet another privately rented mouldy flat with dodgy landlord, and the time and expenses involved with that. Along with having to move school or travel longer to stay in their same school.

I think that type of housing should be added to the school census and those that privately rent and are FSM should get additional funding on top.

Also why would you actually want social mobility? Is it for wealth? It’s a horrible uncomfortable feeling if you are out of place and among people that don’t “get” you - why would you want to push your child into that situation?

I want my teens to have kind fun respectful friends who value them whether the friend lives in a Manor House or a council flat is irrelevant.

that’s an odd train of thought. What do you think social mobility is?

the uk is appalling for social mobility. It doesn't help that so many people have been brainwashed to think it is a bad thing. Know your place is an awful message to give children.

Parents attitudes

Hmm. I accidentally blundered into the public school set at University then the international jet set in the city it’s fine but I was quite different to them in many ways. Married the one person in the group with similar social background to me!

Do you mean social mobility as in getting better paid jobs or mixing with people who are different to those you grew up with?

I find the mc parents at my son’s school far more chatty and sociable than the working class ones

This is interesting as I'm finding the opposite... my kids are in private school now and I find the parents overall much more reserved and less willing to chat. The more working class parents at my sons old nursery were far more chatty and easy-going.

These are largely all good ideas but aren't really relevant to what OP is asking. She isn't enquiring about how to get out of poverty and help her illiterate children to read. She hasn't said anything to suggest she has a chaotic, unstable life or that she is short of money. She's asking how to propel her dc up a class, and how to make them feel comfortable with PLU. Taking them to libraries or spending 10 minutes talking to them every night is not going to achieve that (although obviously they have many benefits).
As you move up the social ladder there is less mixing outside of your 'own'. They might be perfectly nice and polite with you in uni halls, but you won't be a part of the in group. On MN it's all Manor house dc being best friends with those living in homeless hostels and attending the local primary school, but in reality I think access 'up' is much more restricted. In saying that though I'm in the camp that an NHS consultant can still be considered working class, albeit living a MC lifestyle. It's about experiences, values, codes.
I went to primary school with a boy who went on to become an NHS consultant dentist. Solidly wc, his dad was a glazier and his mum a dinner lady. Fast forward 40 years and he lives in a beautiful Victorian detached house. His wife is also from the same sort of background he is from. She's a SAHM. I'm assuming their income is very good, but he seems very uncomfortable spending money. Up until now they holiday in Eurocamp type places. He was telling me recently that now he's getting older he's started spending a bit more on accommodation as he wants more comfort. He also mentioned in passing that he can't relate much to his fellow consultants, as they went to private schools and had very different early life experiences from him, which affects their outlook on life. He has the means to live a very MC lifestyle, but he has money insecurity (I assume a carry over from his childhood) and his lifestyle choices to me are very wc.

That’s not my experience, @madderthanahatter — as the daughter of a binman and cleaner who got out through education and am now an academic married to a CEO (from same background) and living in a big Victorian house in an old money area, surrounded by Regency houses occupied mostly by senior medics (close to two hospitals), i think our spending and ‘lifestyle’ are broadly similar to the people we live among, from solidly MC and UMC backgrounds.

Same for other WC friends who became prosperous — a good friend is a director of his own big architecture practice, has three sons at boarding school, skis a lot, is a member of a yacht club. Still definitely WC, like us, though. He does a lot of housing for homeless projects pro bono, while I volunteer in prisons as a literacy teacher. I suppose we look at the world from the same base, that of it being a hard place for many people.

Belief. They need to believe they can be something different and achieve something. They need role models in their life to inspire them.

I agree with OP and it’s got to be reading. Both my parents were barely literate. My Grandparents were totally illiterate, I used to be babysat by our neighbour and she introduced me to Enid Blyton, she’d read to me from a young age if I was going over. I am the first generation to go to University (Redbrick).

When I went to Uni I must admit I was a total duck out of water having been brought up in a chaotic, traumatic household I was also emotionally all over the place, lacking confidence and self esteem. So I also believe lots of love, believing in your kids makes a huge huge difference. Although I now have this amazing education I’m in regular therapy untangling the past.

Personality! Think it’s innate / genetic.

@madderthanahatter I was the same on spending and have had to have a lot of therapy around this, it’s to do with having grown up not knowing where your next penny is coming from. The talk in our house was daily about money, that passes on. My brother is an incredibly successful businessman, multiple businesses and properties however he will still look at the cost of a loo roll per sheet (like me).

@TheaBrandt absolutely personality, and I think an element of ‘street’ does help in those circles. All I can say is you do become a chameleon, so later in life trying to find your ‘authentic self’ can be a struggle! It’s best to be you!!

Just musing really - you can get one sibling who has lovely friends but all very similar basically identical demographic to herself and another with eclectic friendships who is very comfortable with all social spheres and is welcomed by the super rich 😀. Same parenting ..

Many children have access to cultural capital, education, extra curriculum activities but don't turn that into success. Many don't have access to anything and become successful. It's more nuanced.

You cannot motivate anyone to do anything unless they have volition. The drive to achieve through effort, fail/try/fail cycles, adaptation and not allowing success to be the end are vital elements. But come at a price (social life, friends, experiences).

Totally agree much. Some posts seem to say if you take your child to museums and read books or they get all 9s that leads to social mobility - more nuanced than that especially in today’s society.

The magic is being brilliant company so that people are left feeling good after spending time with you. Have that - worlds your oyster

The couple we know most successful financially and socially went to state schools and both got very modest degrees. But they are smart good company and people really like them.

I've namechanged for this because some of the details are quite identifying. I'm a trainee solicitor at a City law firm, but I would describe myself as from a lower-middle class background and both my parents are working class. In my law conversion course class of sixteen, only three of us were educated at state comprehensive schools and the vast majority of the remainder had been educated at public schools. There are a couple of things (beyond the usual like reading and exposure to cultural experiences) which my parents did that inadvertedly resulted in me feeling less out of place in that environment than I would have felt otherwise:

• The English Speaking Union, an oracy charity who run debating and public speaking competitions which are primarily participated in by private schools, also run a summer school for 14-18 year olds called Debate Academy. It's on the more expensive side (and has doubled in price since I attended), but there is some financial assistance available. I attended for four consecutive years and in that time went from having never debated before to being competent enough to later participate fully in my university's debating society. In addition to the critical thinking and confidence I learnt from the programme itself, mixing and making friends with children who were predominately privately educated and far wealthier than myself meant when in the future I found myself in environments dominated by those kinds of people, I knew not to be in awe of them or initimated by them and rather just to treat them as potential new friends. The ESU also run a programme teaching competitive debating in state schools called Debate Mate which I have heard is very good, but it is reliant on school buy-in, which is difficult when teachers are already stretched by their day-to-day workload.
• They researched and encouraged me to apply to social mobility schemes run by the Sutton Trust, UNIQ, and the Social Mobility Foundation, which are predominately targetted at sixth formers from less advantaged backgrounds aspiring to degrees at competitive universities and professional careers. If you don't know about these programmes' existence, you can't encourage your children to apply to them when appropriate, so I would suggest looking into social mobility charities and the schemes they run. Often these schemes are residential so no need to pay for accomodation and will cover the cost of travel. Doing these schemes meant I was familiar with a university and corporate environment and able to access opportunities which my peers at university and law school had obtained through their parents' connections.
• From a very early age, whenever I was nervous or felt out of my depth, my mum would remind me before I left the car or got off of public transport that I had as much right to be there as anyone else. I bring this phrase to mind whenever I feel slightly uncomfortable about something as an adult because it reassures me that I've earnt my place in the room I am in and am every bit as deserving as my peers. I even reminded myself of it last week when I had to walk into an upmarket, slightly snooty perfume shop to buy my grandma a Valentines' Day gift.

Something worth bearing in mind for the future as your children become older is that it may take them some time to work out how to both fit in with people from a different class at university/work and fit in at home. There were times where I felt that the traits and interests I was developing to fit in with my law school peers were ones which made it hard for my family to relate to me. This was predominately based on immaturity and not yet mastering how to code switch, but it also made me feel very isolated as I didn't quite fit in at law school or quite fit in at home. Be patient with them as they try out different variations of their identity and personality, especially while they're in their late teens and early twenties.

Obviously this is just my personal experience and I am very early on in my career, so people who are further ahead than me may be able to offer a different perspective. It's also dependent on your children's tempermanent and how receptive they are to engaging with the opportunities you give them.

This.

Literacy is the most important thing, followed by cultural capital.

This. It's much more nuanced. There is research that states that a child who grows up with 500+ books in their home before the age of 5 will do significantly better at GCSE's than those who don't. It isn't the physical presence of the books that are going to magically produce better results, it's about the value that the parents give to the books. You could install MN wall to wall bookshelves in 100 homes and put 1000 books on the shelves, but it doesn't mean all the dc will suddenly love books and become accelerated readers if their parents have not modelled reading to them.

Of course not everyone is going to be the same. I suspect my friend's parents were a bit like the OP and felt ill at ease with 'how the other half live' and this has passed down. My friend was not poor by any means growing up (both he and I had similar families) in fact we were probably considered the more privileged pupils in the class as both parents worked and were home owners. However compared to colleagues who grew up with regular skiing holidays and second homes as the norm, he might still feel a bit out of his league. Not everyone is going to have these hang ups though.

I think I'm averagely middle class and so my DS is too. What I want for DS is for him to work hard and behave at school. This will open up a choice of career and enable him to choose one that is well paid enough to be financially secure, so that he can own a home, have a good lifestyle and then support his own children. I don't particularly feel he needs to go to Oxford to do this, or that he'd have a better life by mixing with families with 'old money'. The above is enough so maybe my advice isn't what you're looking for...

But for me it is about succeeding at school to enable a good career choice. Behaving well and revising hard etc. Reading is really important. And basic grammar i.e. there versus their!

At the end of the day, people all have their own daily worries from serious illness, to bullying, to their child having forgotten their PE kit. Most people are too tied up in their own stuff to be judging you!

People with money 100% do have it easier as they can afford the advantages (own laptops, own rooms, a tutor, supporting uni etc). I don't think this is always appreciated by people in that position.