Thread 37 Sunak : Rishi has a plan, right?

[DuncinToffee]

Or back to square one?

Previous thread

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4991119-sunak-created-by-ai?page=40&reply=132989726

I’m a bit worried about what it says about me!

Slightly off topic.

Is it really worth arguing with all the posters* on MN that are peddling an often nasty political agenda and complete misinformation. I don't mean a robust debate over political differences, but the more extreme views. Anti immigration, disablism, benefit bashing etc.

Does it make any difference if we challenge it on MN? The person peddling that stuff and those who believe it are not going to change, are they?

*would like to use different terminology but don't want to be banned!

I don’t think the pedlars of misinformation are going to change their minds but it’s important to correct it. There’s no way I’m going to let them get away with that bloody note or lies about how Labour bankrupted the country. If it stops one person from being taken in it’s worthwhile.

I suppose it's a case of other people who are reading the thread?

Changing people's minds is very hard.
Listening to others, reflecting their views, questioning them - who is the audience?

It's one of the fun things about the internet - and life in general. People like hearing their views reflected back to them, they like hearing views that confirm their opinion and it is really hard to change an opinion.

But it can be done.

As an aside - I love this little thing on views and beliefs. Have a go if you want

A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem Solving - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

I do enjoy a political argument, but I think maybe I will focus on posting facts, Bossomtoes you are right we can't allow the lies to take hold.

Will have a go cakeorwine (could do with both of those right now!).

I don't know. I've actually learnt a lot from reading up based on claims on here. Recently things like, what the Hamas charter actually says, who is actually in charge of Policy Exchange, what the Blackstones Chamber report actually says about transgender law, what Kemi Badenoch is actually saying about the Eq Act, etc etc. I hope other readers will see the same things if they are prompted by some questions being asked.

However it does take a toll when it starts to feel like you're being personally singled out.

I have a soft spot for him too. And David Cameron 😳

Oh no, you jumped the shark there...

However it takes a toll when it starts to feel like you're being personally singled out.

Remember you're not alone. You don't have to do everything @AdamRyan.

In the meantime could you get some professional help for your David Cameron problem?😂

I know!! I'm properly ashamed of myself. It's because I'm such a centrist. It's why I find it so weird to be called a lefty! The world must have gone mad if I'm a lefty

Thanks❤

I can just imagine the scene in 'New Conservative' HQ!

"Sir! Hitting them with a big stick isn't getting us the results we want! What shall we do?"

"Why hit them with a bigger stick of course!"

@AdamRyan you may have fallen out of the Overton Window.

I wonder if any other voices are being heard?
Or are they just listening to themselves?

I am a big fan of More or Less and take an interest in data, statistics and psychology.

It's so interesting to see how data is misused, how people don't understand or see what they want to see in data and I find biases fascinating.

Even on here, we are guilty of it. Just hearing things we want to hear. That's why I look at the Mail and the Express just to at least see other points of view.

Remember the donkey field?

Keir Starmer paid almost £100,000 in tax last year with more than half of the Labour leader's bill coming from the sale of a donkey field he partly-owned | Daily Mail Online

"Sir Keir also paid £52,688 in capital gains tax, following the sale of a field in December 2022 partly owned by himself and partly owned by his father's estate.
It was previously reported that the Labour leader had sold a plot of land he had bought in the 1990s for his parents, who used it to care for neglected donkeys.
Reports at the time put the sale at £400,000. According to the latest tax summary, Sir Keir gained £275,739 from the land sale."

I am sure the Daily Mail made an issue about the donkey field a few years ago!!

Oooh, that might upset some lurkers posters

Apparently it was worth £10 million'

Except it wasn't

Man of the people? New Labour leader Sir Keir owns seven acres of land in Surrey worth up to £10m | Daily Mail Online

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68314953

"At some point in time people like myself [Farage] and Jacob Rees-Mogg have to be in the same party - whether that's Reform, whether that's the Conservatives, whether that's something new.

"Logically, that wing of the party and Reform have to be on the same team."

I can't even....😱

🙄

He did have a beer though. Definitely.

Well, he's not wrong. Conservatives members would likely vote in Farage because they are far more to the right than even their own party - certainly more right wing than your average voter (speaking on behalf of Conservative family members anyway)

Thats also why they'd BBB - because he was in debt to the right wing for supporting him through the Brexit sunlit uplands nonsense.

I think I'm pretty centrist too AdamRyan - I'm a very unlikely lefty. But as it has been mentioned, the Overton window has shifted. So here we are.

I agree about posting facts. You won't change anyone in an echo chamber of their own beliefs. That's not limited to just politics.

But whilst those who are tribally loyal to their beliefs won't be our shades there will be people reading who aren't party to facts or opinions from the other side or haven't yet made up their minds. These people can be saved may be responsive to alternative viewpoint and may make their mind up in agreement with you.

I love quoting facts at my Tory loving friend. She's totally dedicated to them.
But she still can't come up with anything beyond "but Boris got the vaccines done" to which I reply "yes, 4 years ago - what have they done since"

Quite a number of times she's actually ended up admitting their cock ups and she has no evidence Labour will be worse nor does history indicate they'll be worse than what this current lot have done.

Yesterday it was reported that Jeremy Hunt was considering larger spending cuts in order to fund tax cuts - but asked which they think the government should prioritise, most Britons say funding public services

Funding public services: 57%
Tax cuts: 27%

x.com/yougov/status/1758539234733076563?s=46&t=Uw4lJNwxFZFnX0Xs3doHYg

I love quoting facts at my Tory loving friend. She's totally dedicated to them
But she still can't come up with anything beyond "but Boris got the vaccines done" to which I reply "yes, 4 years ago - what have they done since"

He didn't even do that, the UK fast tracked a new vaccine, it then became clear it could be dangerous, the UK stopped using it for younger age groups, didn't have any mRMA vaccines, had to buy in at inflated prices and the EU vaccine rates over took the UKs.

Who uses the AZ vaccine now?

The Russian Embassy in London 😢

twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1758625539617665480?t=mdzgMlKjqeRvNiSgAXPK-g&s=19