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ThisOldThang · 05/02/2024 11:02

I guess manslaughter suggests 'accident' rather than deliberate killing, so there is unlikely to be a repeat if bailed.

I'm not saying I agree with it, but I expect that's the reason.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 05/02/2024 11:03

MalcolmTuckersSwearBox · 05/02/2024 11:00

He is responsible for a woman's death, how on earth has he been let back into the community for a month? Is this not a manslaughter charge? Do they bail for manslaughter? Obviously they do

He was arrested for “dangerous dog offences” so I’m guessing bailed until the testing confirms the breed of dogs

MalcolmTuckersSwearBox · 05/02/2024 11:07

So the argument is likely to be that he doesn't pose an immediate risk to the public because the dogs have been PTS and the puppies have likely been removed. On the other hand, this man knowingly had illegal dangerous dogs in his home, which caused the death of a person. I suppose they've decided that he's also at low risk of absconding.

MalcolmTuckersSwearBox · 05/02/2024 11:07

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 05/02/2024 11:03

He was arrested for “dangerous dog offences” so I’m guessing bailed until the testing confirms the breed of dogs

Ah ok

Saschka · 05/02/2024 11:26

ThisOldThang · 04/02/2024 19:53

I've had a look on Google Maps and it looks completely fine.

Yep - just had a look myself and I’m not seeing the burned out cars and marauding gangs on Streetview.

I’m sure the housing stock is low quality and I’m sure there is plenty of antisocial behaviour, but people saying they looked on Google maps and it was like the zombie apocalypse do need to get a grip.

ThePeaAndThePrincess · 05/02/2024 11:39

Being bitten by a cocker or a terrier is no where near the same, you are so much more powerful than the dog.

It isn't just that.

Most breeds have a "bite inhibition" - that is, they will snap, or even bite if they are provoked, frightened, or over-excited when playing, but then realise what they have done and stop. Their bite is effectively a warning of "you've gone this far - but no further" and they don't go further either. Almost all dogs, when fighting with other dogs, will accept a "surrender" from their opponent and stop when they have won. Very few dogs put their full force into a bite - they hold back because instinct tells them that in a fight they could also get hurt.

These XL bullies:

a) have been bred to enjoy fighting - they get a huge adrenaline rush from it. This not only makes them aggressive but also anaesthetises them to much of the pain an animal would normally feel when being bitten/ struck. Hitting them to "get them off" just increases the violence because they see themselves as under attack.

b) have a very hight prey drive. The yelping/ screaming/ whimpering of their prey excites them even further. They don't accept a "surrender". They just continue the aggression.

c) they are very dominant and know their own power. Most breeds again, accept that their owner is the one in charge. These dogs don't seem to. They are very aware of their own strength, and as a previous poster wrote "you are in charge until the dog decides you aren't". They don't hold back because they know they are powerful, and they know that their opponent doesn't astand a chance (unless it is the same breed, of course - but then it would be a power struggle to the death anyway, as neither would give in.)

d) they are unpredictable. It seems many give no warning growl, and just attack - and the attacks can come out of the blue. Once the first move has been made their prey drive kicks in and they are almost impossible to stop - they really, truly, get into a "zone" were they are unaware of anything around them - all that is real for them is the creature they are attacking.

e) they fight/ attack because they enjoy it. Not because they have been abused, not because they are threatened - because they ENJOY it. This can't be over-emphasised.

Add this to the sheer size and strength of the dog, and you have a killing machine that can't be trusted.

I have seen a dog in this state - not one of these thank heavens, it was a very bad bred and over-aggressive border collie - and it was the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life.

Edited to add. Many of these will also have been encouraged to attack and kill smaller dogs and cats. The sort of people who weaponise them will do this (so never re-home your pet if you don't know exactly where it is going). And it wouldn't surprise me if many o them had also been encouraged to chase and snap at people.

So well-explained @Emotionalsupportviper . This post should be copied onto every thread about these monstrous genetic abominations. They have no place around humans.

I think actually rather than prison sentences the owner of these dogs should be locked in a room with a few of these dogs and let nature take its course. If they are all "soft cuddly little teddy bears" then I'm sure they'll all be very happy with this arrangement - a couple of days of cuddling up with a group of these cute, fluffy animals than they think make really fun family pets rather than years of prison. No reason for them to resist that, surely?

TheBayLady · 05/02/2024 11:55

DaisyDaffodil · 04/02/2024 21:32

They have to be muzzled and on leads in public from 23rd February and they are not allowed to be sold, gifted or exchanged from this date either. They need to be exempted by July.

Thank you for pointing out my mistakeFlowers

Phial · 05/02/2024 11:56

Saschka · 05/02/2024 11:26

Yep - just had a look myself and I’m not seeing the burned out cars and marauding gangs on Streetview.

I’m sure the housing stock is low quality and I’m sure there is plenty of antisocial behaviour, but people saying they looked on Google maps and it was like the zombie apocalypse do need to get a grip.

They don't usually have stuff like on Streetview.

I think it looks very deprived and the lack of proper roads and infrastructure is very telling.

ThePeaAndThePrincess · 05/02/2024 11:59

The area is infamous for being one of the areas with the highest crime and drug use, lowest educational attainment and highest proportion of working age, non-working welfare claimants in the UK.

Let's hope the little boy who has been traumatised twice now is given a loving home with decent family members far away from here, or with a new adoptive or foster family who can care for him properly.

FlyingRoses · 05/02/2024 12:01

We have a government that let this situation arise. Anything goes in the name of “freedom of the individual’. The kennel club and rspca also have sone responsibility for refusing to admit dangerous dogs - dogs bred for aggression and fighting including staffies - should simply not be allowed.

Gloriosaford · 05/02/2024 12:06

@Janetime
you’re in control until the dog decides you’re not
I agree and this is why these, animals are not pets, a pet is subordinate & has no choice but to defer to the owner. These animals are large powerful carnivores and as such they instinctively understand that they can easily overpower and kill humans.

I have read so many horrifying accounts of killings and maimings, especially in the USA.
One, sticks on my mind, a married couple with a son of about 10 years old. The woman obtained one of these dogs, a pit bull type, from a rescue.
One day when the man wasn't at home the dog attacked the child, in order to stop the attack the woman shut herself in the bathroom with the dog. The dog continued to attack \dismember her, both her arms were ripped off.
Her husband came home at this point, realised what was going on, got into the bathroom and was able to shoot the dog dead. (She later died from a kidney infection)

Bookist · 05/02/2024 12:12

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Saschka · 05/02/2024 12:45

Phial · 05/02/2024 11:56

They don't usually have stuff like on Streetview.

I think it looks very deprived and the lack of proper roads and infrastructure is very telling.

There are literally posters a few pages back saying they’ve looked on Google maps and OMG they’ve never seen anything like it, they can’t believe places like that really exist. One poster literally used the phrase “zombie apocalypse”.

Which is a massive over-reaction to some rundown flimsy-looking chalets, IMO.

VivaDixie · 05/02/2024 12:51

Saschka · 05/02/2024 12:45

There are literally posters a few pages back saying they’ve looked on Google maps and OMG they’ve never seen anything like it, they can’t believe places like that really exist. One poster literally used the phrase “zombie apocalypse”.

Which is a massive over-reaction to some rundown flimsy-looking chalets, IMO.

You havent looked properly - I did the same as you and hit lucky on the streetview.

Then I looked at Hillman Avenue where the incident took place...... Have a look there, no grips needed thanks.

justaboutdonenow · 05/02/2024 12:51

Bargello · 05/02/2024 10:50

Possibly a niche reference, but if anyone's a gaming fan there is a monster in the Fallout games called the super mutant hound. It looks exactly like a XL bully.

I'm a big Fallout fan & have also noticed the similarities between XLs & Mutant Hounds.

I suspect the average XL owners often have the thinking capacity of the average Supermutant....

SerendipityJane · 05/02/2024 12:58

But I've slowly become convinced that banning a breed just brings a temporary respite, and then another breed pops up.

Who remembers when drug dealers were tweaking drug chemistry to evade the law, and they were able to come up with a law to deal with that ?

Odd we can't have the same sort of approach for dogs, really.

OP posts:
Ramalangadingdong · 05/02/2024 13:23

I am a little confused. Is the dog owner the son of the poor woman who died?

Sarvanga38 · 05/02/2024 13:27

Ramalangadingdong · 05/02/2024 13:23

I am a little confused. Is the dog owner the son of the poor woman who died?

No, he is/was the partner of her deceased daughter - the father of her grandson.

Abouttimeforanamechange · 05/02/2024 13:31

I think when there are children under 16 in a home with these creatures, it should be considered an urgent safeguarding issue. Adults can choose not to visit or stay in the house, children have no choice.

VivaDixie · 05/02/2024 13:34

I really do hope SS can keep this child as far away from this monster as possible. For as long as possible.

ipredictariot5 · 05/02/2024 15:04

I have had experience of a lurcher nearly eating my cat and seeing the prey drive kick in and the need to kill was terrifying - luckily my cat struggled free
also had to prize a husky type dog off my spaniel who was on her back pinned down and it was trying to rip her throat
but at same time my in laws had to have a spaniel put down who snapped at a child making contact with the face and leaving a scar - they had no hesitation in doing so which was admirable as lots of people wouldn’t.
I have a spaniel and a collie.
my experience tells me no dog is 100% reliable, we can manage our naturally submissive breeds by making sure you are pack leader but I would never ever
let a baby/ small child roll around with any sort of dog
a dog with a high prey drive/ dominant/ muscular and large who does not respect a pack where humans are in charge is dangerous. It is right that they are banned
also occurs to me that the fact a broom was used meant the owner knew it wasn’t safe to go in amongst the puppies. I have bred a couple of litters of spaniels and when the parental urge kicks in any dog would attack - can’t imagine how I would feel if someone tried to stop my toddlers fighting with a broom!

DaisyDaffodil · 05/02/2024 15:15

This was posted on a FB group near me this morning

”This is Bear he’s 4 years old American bulldog x Alpha blue blood bulldog. I don’t really know what a joke is as I have been left outside and used as a stud dog but I do know basic commands and will ask to get out if in house and someone’s in a can’t stay with any other pets as don’t get on with other dogs and never been around kids so I need a pet free and kid free home and someone that’s going to understand my needs I love giving hugs and kisses never had anyone that really loves me for being a dog and not making them money I like my own garden I can be a good boy the rescue have done a assessment of me.”

This was written by the rescue and copied exactly as it’s worded. The advert is followed by a link to a go fund me page. Another post was made by the person posting this ad asking for free dog toys and blankets to be dropped off to them as they have no money for transport and are saving money for vets bills! A post was also made yesterday asking for £200 to transport this animal from Sheffield to Scotland. This dog has never been around children, doesn’t like other animals, had been used as a stud dog, has probably had very little human contact, clearly hasn’t been exempted yet they want to “save” it. This is one of many posts made by the same person still moving these dogs to Scotland.

adorablecat · 05/02/2024 15:28

Horrace · 05/02/2024 09:33

Ok, you have convinced me messyhair.
We should cull all breeds to be in the safe side.

Seems sound to me.

Bargello · 05/02/2024 15:43

That “rescue” is one of those unaccredited FB groups run by idiots, right? Wanting to rehire a feral beast who has spent its life outside with a family for “hugs and kisses”? The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze.

PUT THEM DOWN. All of them.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 05/02/2024 15:47

Seasaltsquall · 05/02/2024 00:04

@score "The thing is it's not just size, it's personality. St Bernards, Newfoundlands, and Great Danes are absolutely huge - much bigger than XL bullies or other pit bull types. Yet they've never killed anyone because it's not in their genetic personality traits. Not only are fighting breeds strong and athletic, they're naturally violent, and exceptionally tenacious which makes them desire to finish the job (ie, fight with the aim of killing)"

You are absolutely spot on pointing this out. I can't remember seeing a death caused by any of the breeds mentioned above-ever.

My best friend as a teenager was given a huge dog like a mastiff (forget exact breed) who was the soppiest and shyest dog ever and wouldn’t harm a fly, yet he looked scary to most people who didn’t know him! He’d hide behind sofas!

The scariest other dogs I know were on a holidays to Majorca a few years ago, a Spanish dog called Perla (Pearl) no idea of breed but looked scary. Was bred as a guard dog and kept on a chain outside her house, she broke the chain and attacked but think just bit, the NDN’s DC who lived up the lane and had to walk past that house if they weren’t being driven, and 2 Chihuahuas who lived at the end of that same lane who’d bark and try to bite you. But at least you knew they were country guard dogs.

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