Essex dog attack: Man arrested after woman dies in Jaywick

[SerendipityJane]

Not much to say really.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-68197109

I doubt the new legislation will make much difference.
I've said it here before
You wouldn't walk around with a lion on a lead.
The only difference being, a lion, in my opinion, looks far more cuddly than these fuck ugly dogs. And less aggressive

They mentioned a family link to the poor woman. I wonder if this is the grandson that owned the dogs?

It’s all over the news. It was her son in law. The little grandson is a child!

Grandson is 11

His father is the owner of the dogs (2x adult and 6 puppies, which were first advertised for sale in November, before ban came in to force); his mother, deceased, is one of his (now deceased) grandmother's 4 DC.

No word on whether anyone else lived with them

You don't get it do you? It's human beings that do the damage. You think it's wise to breed these dogs in temporary accommodation? Really? You think these dogs were being given the best life? Dogs are products of their surroundings. And for your information, it isn't just this breed that are responsible for attacking. You are just going along with the same old propaganda. Putting registration laws in place or destroying this breed won't actually curb the problem.
Of course I think it's sad that this woman was killed, at the same time you have to look at the circumstances of the death.

This is so naive and I am so sick of people trying to justify dangerous dogs. It is you who doesn’t get it. It’s the sheer fact the dogs are capable of this and bred to insticintively have the drive to do so. They pick the most aggressive dogs and breed them.

so whilst yes bad owners are the issue, the actual breed is the main issue. This attack was in the family Home. She tried to stop the puppies fighting with a broom. Puppies for god sake, attacking each other, and the two dogs attacked.

please stop propagating that these dogs are safe and it’s the owner. It’s beyond ludicrous.

You realise that the owner wasn't following the laws put in place don't you? And further that they were breeding them? In temporary accommodation?
Enforceable laws are useful, if no-one supports these laws including the community, it won't make a difference. No laws would in fact.

I'm sorry but you are wrong. I've worked with dogs for 15 years & think I have a better understanding than most people.
All dogs are capable of attack. The most aggressive I've known are the smaller breeds such as shih Tzu, jack russels & occasionallly breeds such as dobermans. These are very exceptional though & are & I work with dogs everyday. The difference is that these are big dogs, & can do damage. Trotting out the same old "they were bred for this" is shit, because there are many dogs bred to guard & attack which don't do this on a daily basis.
Also, have you read your post... puppies... puppies. Have you thought for one minute that it's not actually a good choice to breed & keep puppies in temporary accommodation.

The puppies were probably going nuts in there for months together, they do fight, they played fight all of the time, all puppies do this, but they were probably going stir crazy in a small space. Then, someone who the mother of these puppies don't know putting a broom in between them. That's not wise either.
You need to consider the circumstances of this death. Yes there's a lot of talk about these particular dogs at the moment. Next year it'll be another breed.
People need to realise that breeding dogs isn't even legal without a licence in the UK. If the puppies hadn't been there, it's highly unlikely this would have happened. It was the whole environment.

No-one anywhere thinks that humans have done well by creating these dogs, but that's not the issue now, is it? The issue is that extremely hardcore dogs have become the go to family dog of the masses in some areas.

As a poster says above, anyone who owns one of these dogs should be under no illusions: You’re in control until the dog decides you’re not.

Although this man presents as a twat, I'm sure he didn't really think these dogs would kill a family member. Nobody wants that, I'm sure, and no-one wants their 11 year old son to see it either, and then face prison himself. Let's face it, it's by the grace of God that the 11 year old got out of the house to raise the alarm and wasn't killed himself once all this kicked off, can you imagine if he'd dived in to try and help his Gran?

If you take the published pictures at face value, these were well integrated family pets who were exercised. Made no difference in the end.

@Messyhair321 you're forgetting genetics (& potentially epigenetics- stress effects on developing foetuses during gestation), as people always seem to do when discussing certain breeds of dog.

All dogs are capable of attack. The most aggressive I've known are the smaller breeds such as shih Tzu, jack russels & occasionallly breeds such as dobermans.

Why do people keep trotting out this absolute rubbish? When was the last time you heard about an adult being savaged to death by a shih tzu?

This legislation is just a token gesture by the government as usual for the sake of appearances and so as not to offend.

What needs to happen is a total cull of this breed and similar.
Yes, some thick skinhead will have his feelings hurt for a week but he will get over it.
It will save some lives.

No I don't think you can assume anything you've said. They were being used for financial gain for a start. And no, you can't assume that they were being well kept, well fed, exercised, in good condition, vets regularly etc
This is what good dog ownership looks like. I don't think we can assume anything at all. The only thing we know is that the dogs were being bred in a small temporary space. They were being trained with a BROOM. And clearly they were likely too old to be living together anyway. They might not have even been being fed properly. It's expensive for the average person to have a dog but for someone to have several, in a small space. That's both really unwise & expensive. I'm sure they weren't being given the care they needed to be healthy happy dogs.

The outcry though, I mean there was a whole bunch of fools giving it we are responsible owners, they are nanny dogs, just for the ban, showing them selves up to not understand the fundamental issue with the breed.

mass slaughter would have the country frothing. Let’s face it.

The reason we don't hear of this is because they are smaller breeds so can obviously do less damage. But they can be aggressive & that's what I've said if you read my post properly.
I've also seen many smaller breed dogs put to sleep because they've attacked family members, and the only reason people like you don't know about it, is because the newspapers don't report. It's not newsworthy. But it happens & frequently.

This shows up the stupidity of a half-baked ‘exempt / muzzle in public’ strategy.

Muzzle in public: good! But so many of these fatal and life changing attacks have happened in the home.

And I don't disagree fundamentally with what you've said, but again that all brings us back round to 'The issue is that extremely hardcore dogs have become the go to family dog of the masses in some areas'.

All of the above issues you describe are happening across the country with Labradors, Dobermanns, GSDs, Springers etc. etc. ad infinitum - but these breeds are not killing adults regularly and children too, are they? They are not being beaten with spades to try and stop them when they attack, but continuing until Police shoot them?

You can say it as long as you like, but in its current form in this country, this breed undoubtedly is an issue and the law couldn't come soon enough for most clear thinking people. It won't be perfect, no law is - but it's a start and let's hope the Police use it to act quickly on any initial issues. People bang on about the law not having eradicated Pit Bulls, and I'm sure that's true, but they didn't exist in the numbers XL Bullies exist in general family homes and it's only increasing.

The law won't stop attacks inside the home, but if making them hard and more expensive to own stops every other family in crap small accommodation having them, then that in itself reduces the risk.

So they don't kill people?
What are you trying to convince us of?

It’s very rare to be honest. Surely you must be able to comprehend the difference here?

I was just about to say the same thing. There is no one to 'police' such a ban in any case, so these vile things should be wiped out.

I have seen many times on MN a distraught owner being advised that a dog that has bitten a child or family member should be PTS. And MNers who have said that they have done this. But it has always been a bite , or two bites if they have tried behaviour / training approaches. Bite, never sustained mauling or attack.

I'm not trying to convince you of anything at all. I'm putting forward the point that a lot of smaller dogs attack & the reason people like you don't know about it is because it doesn't get reported when they are PTS. They don't kill only because of their size but it happens & frequently. I'm not at all convinced that these dogs are less aggressive than some others, but when they are they do more harm.
I've worked with dogs everyday for 15 years, only been bitten twice, by a jack russel & Springer spaniel. One had been poorly treated the other some sort of genetic issue. So don't tell me it's just these dogs that bite or are aggressive.
It is noteable that you're actually ignoring the environment they were kept in. And the circumstances.

I agree, and if I owned one of those dogs, this latest event would scare the shit out of me, as it absolutely proves, once again, you are in control until the dog decides you are not.

If it attacks there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it unless you’ve got a gun to hand. Their instinct is to kill , no matter how sweet they are the rest of the time, how well behaved. If they feel threatened, they will attack, and no one can pre empt absolutely everything that would cause the dog to feel this way and mitigate it. It’s simply not possible, it could be something very every day, like a child picking up a toy. Or your gran, something they’ve done a thousand times before, and the dog this time, reacts.

every single person who has one of these dogs in the home, should absolutely know this could happen to them, and theirs at any time.

Was it temporary accommodation? Jaywick is mostly owner-occupied as far as I know (a friend was a district councillor in the area for decades).