Essex dog attack: Man arrested after woman dies in Jaywick

[SerendipityJane]

Not much to say really.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-68197109

Decent owners bring up their dogs properly, and they are unlikely to be a risk. They are the people who register their XL bullies and use muzzles. The really dangerous dogs belong to dodgy thugs who don't raise their dogs to be safe and social animals - and they are the people who ignore rules about registration and muzzling.

I disagree. These dogs have been cross bred to have a certain look, many have been bred due to their genetics. They are unlikely to be risk? Seriously? They have a bite force of over 300psi.

They are also required to be onlead & muzzled at all times in public & to have third party insurance.

Technically this should at least reduce attacks in public spaces, but won't prevent attacks in private residences, or if the dog escapes off their property.

And the typical bully owners, on the whole, seem very lackadaisical about keeping them secure.

The thing is it's not just size, it's personality. St Bernards, Newfoundlands, and Great Danes are absolutely huge - much bigger than XL bullies or other pit bull types. Yet they've never killed anyone because it's not in their genetic personality traits. Not only are fighting breeds strong and athletic, they're naturally violent, and exceptionally tenacious which makes them desire to finish the job (ie, fight with the aim of killing).

In fact I know a St Bernard x Newfoundland with a useless owner who hasn't trained her at all. The dog is a nuisance, but completely and utterly harmless. Most large breeds don't need to be muzzled, also pit bulls and American Bullies smaller than XLs are medium breeds, yet they're still capable of killing adult men. It's only fighting breeds, and aggressive or high prey drive breeds like huskies, rottweilers, Belgian Malinois etc that need to be muzzled.

I agree that owners should be charged for whatever their dogs do. If their dog kills someone, they should get manslaughter, or murder if they deliberately set their dog on them. If their dog maims someone, they should get GBH, or GBH with intent if it was deliberate. The legal liability would make at least some owners more careful.

I suspect that a lot of XLs are being dumped recently because the owners know they are aggressive liabilities and worry that registering their dogs will basically be a paper trail that makes them legally fully liable if they attack anyone. But they feel too mean to put them down, or take them to a shelter with the same outcome, so they just dump them and leave it to fate.

People struggle to grasp the fact that these dogs have a genetic predisposition to aggression that has now been closely inbred into them.

No amount of cooing 'my sweet furbaby' at them or draping a toddler on them changes the fact that the dogs were originally bred to maim & kill.

It doesn’t. The only people who will comply were law abiding citizens anyway- many of them with well trained big crossbreed dogs who are not actually XL bullies but meet the description. The problem owners with aggressive dogs don’t give a shit about the law and there is no provision for additional enforcement to do anything about it until another tragedy happens. Often the attacks happen in the owners property anyway.
The streets are probably marginally safer if the public report any unmuzzled XL bullies they see out and about but they’ll continue to maul visiting grandmothers and children.

The dog owner looks like a right prick. Sad for the little boy, his mum died 2 yrs ago, and now he's witnessed his Nan die a terrible death.
Hopefully his scumbag dad will get some decent jail time and he will have the chance to live somewhere decent.

They are the people who register their XL bullies and use muzzles.

But why does anyone want a dog that is potentially deadly and has to be muzzled? It's not very nice for the dog And yes there's a risk in the home.

If you are a good, caring, responsible and kind dog owner then why would you want an XL at all?

It does prevent attacks. The ban on breeding and selling them and the requirement to neuter them will mean the breed will die out naturally in about a decade, or at least be greatly reduced in number.

My cousin was an XL breeder, she's stopped with the news of the ban a few months ago. That's hundreds and hundreds of future XL puppies that are no longer being bred into existence from this law.

The requirement to muzzle will prevent attacks in the well-trained, well-loved, responsibly-owned dogs that "inexplicably" turn one day, due to their genetic unpredictability.

The law preventing rehoming will mean that unadoptable XLs that have been languishing in rescue centres, will no longer be adopted out. They will either remain there permanently, or be put down, thus protecting the general public.

There's not a requirement to muzzle in the home though. What about the children who live there and relatives who visit? They're still at risk. Poor kids having to share their home with such an animal.

Growling is a good thing. It's much better to know that a dog is unsettled/unhappy in a situation and remove it from said situation than to have stamped out the growling and have the dog go straight to attack without any warnings.

The owner looks and sounds like an absolute tool. I hope they make an example of him

Based on the photo I have seen I think he would be outsmarted by the average cross head screwdriver.

Your post is incredibly insensitive considering that the poor lady was horrifically mauled by these beasts. This breed and similar types have also killed children and babies yet there are still those who will defend them - if they are so innocent then why are they always the ones involved in fatal attacks?! Thousands of dogs are mistreated and live with incompetent or cruel owners, they don't kill people and most that are rescued go on to be rehomed without issue.

@Kpo58. Totally agree but I did state " unprovoked".

How would you know it's unprovoked? A man welding a chainsaw wouldn't be unprovoked, but if the dog suddenly growls at kindly Mr Jenkins who you have known for years, is that provoked or not? Mr Jenkins could be innocent or have just committed some heinous crime that you don't know about, but the dog has picked up.

@Kpo58
If a child walks past a dog and glances at it and the dog growls. That's unprovoked.

Is a dog a good judge of character sometimes? Yes possibly. They pick up on body language etc.
Do they know who Mr jenkins chopped up in his kitchen 2 Fridays ago? No.
I'm sure if Mr jenkins was wielding a chainsaw in the street everyone would run the other way.

The dog cannot be innocent or guilty, it is an animal and therefore incapable of making moral choices.
These dogs have been bred for fighting, they are extremely 'game', impervious to pain and highly aroused by killing other creatures, it's fun for them, they are seen in videos wagging their tails excitedly as they attack people and animals They are large powerful carnivores which have no place as pets in human society.

@score "The thing is it's not just size, it's personality. St Bernards, Newfoundlands, and Great Danes are absolutely huge - much bigger than XL bullies or other pit bull types. Yet they've never killed anyone because it's not in their genetic personality traits. Not only are fighting breeds strong and athletic, they're naturally violent, and exceptionally tenacious which makes them desire to finish the job (ie, fight with the aim of killing)"

You are absolutely spot on pointing this out. I can't remember seeing a death caused by any of the breeds mentioned above-ever.

These dogs are proving to be so dangerous, keeping them in a house where there are children should be illegal. It is certainly something that the govt should consider.

Adults have a choice of whether to go near them or not. Children do not. And frankly we have to question the values of any parent who would put their dogs before the safety of their own children. Does that, in itself constitute neglect? Can any household be considered a safe environment with one of these animals on the loose.

Another woman has died because of the ignorance, arrogance and rank stupidity of a man who refused to pay heed to the dangerous dogs laws. Next time it could be a child.

Adults have a choice of whether to go near them or not
@Meadowfinch
One would hope so but they are prone to breaking out of various enclosures in order to attack, or they attack while being walked off leash😡

RIP this poor poor woman, what a terrible way to go. Makes me so angry. XL Bully owners and the chip on their shoulders. Yep including the “it’s the owner not the dog, mine is so lovely and sweet” brigade. It’s not the owner love, it’s the fucking dog. (Though a lot of the owners are as scummy as the breed). Id have them all destroyed today. Ugly brutish killers. Menace to society. Every single one is a threat. Too many attacks now. All these deaths. So avoidable.

This bully ban has made about as much difference as a thimble of water on the great fire of London.
They’re all over the place, owners refusing to muzzle, register or neuter Killa the 14 stone XL because it’s not bit anyone yet. These fucking dogs need culling and forcing into extinction. Theres gonna be thousands being attacked/killed in their own homes because people are desperate for a fat headed mutt that looks nasty.

Agree these dogs should all be rounded up and destroyed.

It's the dog and the owner! Both at a problem.

I’m not sure that’s quite true, thay it’s not made a difference, they are muzzled in public now a lot, and they can’t breed them, which does effectively start to put the breed into extinction. And of course there are irresponsible owners, but it is important to remember this woman was not killed in public by an unmuzzled dog.

she was killed in the home, she tried to seperate the fighting puppies with a broom, as the owner told her to, the two adult dogs saw it as an attack on their babies and attacked.

it also seemed he couldn’t sell the puppies due to the ban. No one was buying. The issue here was they existed in the first place, and when they attacked no one was able to stop it .

it’s also important to note these were two dogs who were round a young child, who had never attacked before. So for all the folks giving it the old nanny dog shite, and my dog wouldn’t attack, the utter trauma that child went through and the fact they couldn’t be stopped once they started attacking should tell them everything they need to know.

you’re in control until the dog decides you’re not.

Agree with all this

Plus given the numbers talked about being moved to Scotland shows it has had an impact

Bad news for people there though and I’m not sure what will happen when the same law comes in and nowhere to move to