Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

Not sure they could have stopped her money access @NotQuiteNorma as the podcast said it came from a trust fund and I seem to remember it came from a grand parent? Could be wrong, but it did not sound like it was going to her directly from the family. And she blamed them for the removal of her other children, so it sounds like they tried to do the right thing.

It was a trust fund administered by a legal firm as I understood it

The thing is I think she did have a lot of support previously with the other births... including a place in a mother and baby facility which she wouldn't take up. She also abandoned one of her other babies while they were still in hospital after the birth. She gave fake names when attending hospital... the list goes on!

Her family hired private investigators and worked closely with SS as they were so worried about the children.

Personally, I think she put her own relationship with MG before that with any of her children. Out of just about anyone she had the opportunity to be able to keep her children - money, family support etc and the opportunity to undertake programs which were designed to keep her with her child. To have four children removed there has to be something very seriously wrong. And evidently there was with the death of her fifth.

Jurors have been told they will hear evidence from the couple's family court proceedings next week, which may shed more light on this aspect.

Thank you so much

One thing that I haven’t heard mentioned on the podcast was how CM was feeding baby Victoria. I don’t think that there has been any mention of them buying formula (and it would have been impossible for them to sterilise bottles etc). Neither parent has mentioned CM breastfeeding Victoria and given her poor diet, I would imagine she would have struggled with her supply.

That is really interesting @Pebble21uk and you are quite right, she had every advantage. But I do know it is really really common for mothers who have had children removed to keep having children, and dont know if that is properly psychologically addressed - its one thing to give practical support, but whatever the rights and wrongs of it, it is traumatic. I know there was a link earlier in the thread about the PAUSE program. But of course, this all depends on using the help offered. And it sounds like for CM, she just resisted everything. I posted before about a situation I was involved in I assisted in removing a baby from her parents - like, with a police escort backing me up, actually taking her from their arms. I saw them a few times over the next few weeks and supervised a visit, and they really seemed to love the baby, but were completely inadequate and resistant to any help and support. It was absolutely the right thing to do, but still very sad.

Maybe they were in a folie a deux situation?

This is for certain a folie a deux situation

@Atethehalloweenchocs I do understand what you are saying... and defer to your much greater experience. Thank you.

I don't think it was the family giving the money. I believe it was a substantial trust fund that an aunt or grandparent set up for her and I read that it had caused friction in the family.
Can't recall where I read that but the more i find out, the more tragic it seems.
I'm intrigued to know why only her mother and one of her brothers attend court. Why not her father or her other brothers.

They did mention she was breastfeeding her. One of the taxi drivers I think and also MG said that she was breastfeeding.

”He said he noticed Ms Marten was hiding a baby under her jacket which she was breastfeeding during the journey. He offered to get a car seat but Ms Marten said the baby was too small. Mr Gordon paid him £400 in £20 notes, Mr Yaryar told the court. He said the baby was wearing no clothes except a nappy.”

how they could live like this with access to money is beyond me. I just don’t understand this at all.

i wish they would remove the photos of the other kids from her facebook page, the older ones must be around 7/6 now and they probably have been adopted or live in foster care and it’s not great their pictures are still out there.

Maybe they don’t support her or don’t want to be in the press. One of her brother’s wedding was in Vogue a few years ago and she wasn’t there. I assume there was a fall out years ago (over MG? The kids? She said her family got social services involved)

Why not her father or her other brothers.

Have any of MG’s relations been in court to support him? If not, why not?
Why is all the attention on CM rather than MG - he seems equally culpable.

He is indeed culpable of fathering several children and letting them go into the care system.

But men are allowed to do this legally. It's the woman who has the legal obligation to take care of the babies.

I would like to know more about the circumstances surrounding the birth of Marten's first baby, because it seems to me to have an alarm for pre natal depression. Talking in a false Irish Traveler accent is surely cause for concern.

I thought his family live in the US. He was convicted of rape at a very young age, I doubt he had a nice supportive family.

“At 13 years older than Constance, Mark was born in Birmingham and was only young when he moved to Florida with his mother and half-siblings.
What did Mark Gordon do? What are his crimes and convictions?Aged just 15 in 1990, Mark was arrested and found guilty of kidnap and sexual battery.
He was sentenced to 20 years in prison and was deported back to the UK in 2010.”

I disagree. This should not be discussed anyway within the context of an ongoing trial.

“y.”
The court was told Marten had given birth to a child in 2017 while living in a campervan, and had put on a fake Irish accent in hospital, pretending to be from the Travellers’ community.
After another birth, in 2021, she had left the child at the hospital, and on returning the following day was refused entry because of Covid restrictions and her refusal to take a test.”

I don’t understand this at all, she had access ro a trust fund and was living in a campervan? She refused to take a covid test even though it meant she couldn’t see her baby? So far in the trial her defence hasn’t claimed any mental health issues - maybe still to come?

Her access to the trust fund came after her first baby. The house they were living in, East Ham, then was left because of an eviction order due to non payments of rent.

What I can't understand is why they bought such crappy cars, both broke down.

Also the very telling testimony that they were recognised in East Ham.

@placemats so presumably neither of them had a regular income at that point. I thought at some point she worked as a journalist, she must have given that up after she met him.

I think you shouldn't presume and you are confused with the timeline, though the later is confusing, especially regarding the actual birth date of baby Victoria.

There was enough income to buy a campervan. And the petrol to drive to Wales.

However this court case is about the death of baby Victoria.

What do you mean by this? Nobody is legally obligated to take care of babies. There is no greater legal weight on mothers than fathers. Both sexes are culpable when a baby is neglected and both sexes are able to relinquish care of a child.

No that's not true. When an abandoned baby is found the father is never asked to come forward for information. Child abandonment is primarily seen as a woman crime.