One of the saddest stories in a long time TW: Neglect/child death

[Perjo]

I read this this morning and it has to be one of the saddest, most avoidable child deaths I've read about in a long time. Especially where it says he was still alive on January 2nd.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/47b4c6b2-673d-4c43-8ef0-b8ba05c47f0a?shareToken=39b0f7f8b3c90882aca021214db91159

This is very true. It's about protecting the child, not punishing the parent.

If a woman refused to date a man after learning that he'd been in prison for violence towards his ex, no one would judge her (at least, I hope not!). None of her friends or family would say, "That poor man, do you really think he deserves to be punished for the rest of his life for what he did? Don't you believe he deserves a second chance? Who are you to judge him?" Odds are, they'd advise her to steer clear of him for her own safety.

Why doesn't the same apply to children? We wouldn't expect an adult woman to take her chances with a man who's been violent towards women in the past, so why are we expecting children to take their chances with a parent who's been abusive to their previous children?

@ZoeCM again, another one who dines it impossible to empathise with the reasons why people end up without their children. They are vast, and to say that all parents should NEVER be allowed another child is punishing and stigmatising.

Nobody is saying children should never be removed, that is stupid. Anyone saying a parent should never be allowed more children OR their existing children can never come back is Ill informed.

Wet don't have that system for good reason on the whole. Some cases should be dealt with harder, not ALL.

@Wobbly, do you emphasise with the reasons why men abuse women? Would you advise your daughter, or a friend, to get involved with a man who'd been violent to a previous partner? Would you worry that they were stigmatising those men by refusing to date them?

Sorry, what? What's the relevance?

Not all children are on CP/CIN plans or removed because of abuse. Not all removals are permanent and some children return home long term. At this point, just bow out of the discussion.

If a woman is in an abusive relationship and has a child taken to a relative/foster carer.

And then leaves the man, does extensive work, attends contact, does DA support, builds a support network with professionals over a period of years, she should apparently never be allowed any more children and have her child adopted and never see them again.

According to a few here.

Is that ok?

@PinkShowerCurtain those bruises seem to me to be in an odd place. If it was below the knee I would not think much of it. But if I had a two year old with bruises like that on their thighs, I'd be wanting to know a bit more.

Sorry, I should have made it clear that I'm only talking about cases where the child has been removed permanently. In those cases, I do not believe the mother or father should be allowed to keep any subsequent children - it's too much of a risk. But if a child is removed temporarily and then returned home, it's entirely possible the situation wasn't serious enough to stop the parent from ever keeping further children.

As to the relevance of abusive men - as I said, if you wouldn't expect a woman to put herself at risk for the sake of a man who has harmed previous partners, why would you expect that of a child?

From one of reports in The Sun.

Social workers visited the rented property where Bronson lived with the dad he “adored” on January 2 and again two days later, but there was no answer.

They asked Sarah if she had received any messages from Kenneth, but gave her no indication there was anything to worry about.

Really? She's contacted by Social Workers asking about the whereabouts of her child's father and that rings no alarm bells for her? Not even a smidgen of interest as to why they contacted her?

I have no sympathy for her. If I were her I'd be so ashamed of myself I would be in hiding - not all over the media blaming everyone else.

The article is as horrific as I expected and again as I suspected NOWHERE does it say she was not paid for it.

She is horrific. She hadn't seen Bronson since November, yet she blames SS for his death? Fuck.

I think they are happening more often.

There seems to be a slow but steady increase of people not doing their jobs properly. In this case, the police.

If a parent has a serious diagnosis plus sole care of very young DC then it's their responsibility to ensure that they put in place a contact to contact every day just to say they're ok. Yes, even if you have social anxiety.

Sorry if it’s already been mentioned, but she called that child Bronson. What kind of an unfit mother calls their child that.

She has no teeth. Draw your own conclusions as to what she may have been up to over the Christmas and New Year period, instead of looking after her toddler son.

Every photo he looks dirty and unkempt. He had no chance at life. Utterly tragic.

It was in the news today that within hours after Bronson and his dad were removed from the house it was burgled and money and "medicine" stolen.

So the police didn't even secure the crime scene.

What's wrong with the name Bronson? I like it.

Such a tragic story. It makes me think about people who have been left undiscovered for months or even years.

I don't see why social services or the police are to blame though. This could happen to anyone, or to any lone parent who isn't known to social services or the police.

Anyone not known to social services and have no immediate family (which this father and son did) or close friends could potentially be left for months or years until eventually discovered.

Just because social services were involved, I don't think they are to blame, I actually think they accessed the property quite quickly. And thankfully they did, although the outcome was tragic. Police can't break into the homes of every single property where most of the time there would be no issue.

@Bubbleohseven it is the name of our country’s most notorious killer.

Do you mean Charles Bronson? He's never killed anybody (not for lack of trying though)

Isn't that dirt or chocolate on his thighs? Same as whats on his face and hands

This.

As a society we have a real issue with accepting that women can be equally capable of committing atrocities .

In my career I have seen middle aged women commit serious life endangering arson... were they ever charged? No
I have come across many wonen in middle class backgrounds who have neglected or abused their children, but again society has a real issue with accepting it .

Don't know if this has been mentioned already but there have been reports that a neighbour heard Bronson's dad shouting at him multiple times in the days before he died. His dad was out of work and had difficulties moving about. He also had heart problems and was jaundiced. Looking after a toddler on your own can be hard work even when you're fit and well, but having ongoing health issues like that would have made it substantially more challenging. The question for me is why the child wasn't taken into care by children's services before this tragedy occurred. I expect there is going to be a lot of blame-shifting going on between SS, the police and family members.

Poor little soul. His clothes in the pictures are dirty. I can’t stop thinking about him.

Police are to blame. Perhaps also the mother but we don’t know enough. Social worker has gone over and above and I hope she’s ok.

Yeah. The rights of the parents will always come first. That’s the sad reality.

Let’s not “stigmatise” a parent who has had umpteen kids removed already. No. Let’s let her keep this newborn until they’re two and a half and remove them then. When the damage is done.

And yet the vast majority of contributions to this thread are castigating the mother.