One of the saddest stories in a long time TW: Neglect/child death

[Perjo]

I read this this morning and it has to be one of the saddest, most avoidable child deaths I've read about in a long time. Especially where it says he was still alive on January 2nd.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/47b4c6b2-673d-4c43-8ef0-b8ba05c47f0a?shareToken=39b0f7f8b3c90882aca021214db91159

There are actually many places out in the community that are exactly that, but are for young people who’s foster placements have broken down. The ones I am familiar with housed between 2 and 4 children at a time. These young people usually come with complex needs, and I’ve read many a thread on here where people have complained about living near these properties.

I don’t think it’s a thing for young children, most are from the age of 8 upwards.

Im not dismissing the idea, but I’m not sure how effective they are and if something like this would work for babies/toddlers.

Yes I think it needs to be a first port of call rather than a last resort, to provide stability and carers who are unlikely to be out of their depth as the teen years approach. If the children were the same age there would be no reason they couldn’t stay on indefinitely as young adults, there wouldn’t be a rush for them to go anywhere, one of the adults could stay on as a kind of guide and mentor.

The fact that you think children should be with paid foster caters ('attracted' to the job) kind of says it all. Extended families are best placed to look after children and that has the best outcomes.

Also, not everyone with a child removed has it done so permanently. There are a plethora of reasons that can lead a person to that point, and it can be done so voluntarily whilst a parent is getting off drugs, for example.

This hard line approach may be valid for some parents but many more are people in need of a lot of support and intervention m, who do love their children and can be capable of caring for them.

No, all of you are misquoting me badly. It says a lot that child removal is the only solution all of you see.

It's like Americans saying "let's take all the unhealthy people out of the population" because they can't fathom any other solution to their lack of healthcare.

Yes sometimes child removal has to be done, but again, as a foreigner, your private school and entrenched social class / caste systems are the issue.

How so?

Please elaborate on how schools/the class system is to blame?

Extended families are best placed to look after children and that has the best outcomes.

You think the "extended family" here would be any less awful than the mother? I doubt it.

your private school and entrenched social class systems are the issue.

. Only a tiny proportion of UK children go to private schools. It's about 5%.

@IHaveNeverLivedintheCastle obviously extended family go through full assessments before a child is placed with them, but yes if there is a family member who is capable and willing to take on care of the child then this is the best possible solution and has improved outcomes for the child.

The fact that you think children should be with paid foster caters ('attracted' to the job) kind of says it all. Extended families are best placed to look after children and that has the best outcomes

I don't.

For children removed at birth...like, IMO all THREE youngest dc of this mother in question should have been due to her long history of having older dc removed...then there's no need for them to linger with foster carers is there? My understanding is that there are many families who would like to adopt a newborn. Foster care would need only be very, very short term.

For older dc, I think foster carers are often 100% better than placing them with a member of the same dysfunctional family for the cycle to continue.

I think that once someone has a child or children removed by SS this should mean automatic removal of any future dc at birth.

This is what I disagree with.

If you read to the end, you'd see that some cases are unredeemable, I agree. I strongly disagree with this notion that any removal should punish a person forever - for the reasons I stated.

The “problem” isn’t private schools, the government, social services, Police, NHS etc etc

The problem, is some adults do not take responsibility for their actions.

They do not take responsibility for their children. It’s always someone else’s fault.

This woman’s child has died. Horrifically.

She even has the audacity to passively, aggressively blame the dead Dad for moving the snacks to a high shelf. Vile.

A long while ago i worked in child protection- on the court side of things. By the time we got to the case it was usually for forced removal or forced adoption. The odd occasion where parents went to SS themselves and said they didn't want the kids. It is a fact IMO that there are some families that are totally beyond help. They don't actually want help and have no interest in developing parenting skills or improving the lives of their kids.

Sometimes they were just so clueless that they could not even absorb what needed to be done to fulfill basic parenting requirements.

Others just need support and information and guidance. Those cases were the ones I loved... where parents who were struggling were able to totally turn things around because they just needed some help.

This case is so tragic and it's bringing back alot of bad memories for me. But I agree that it is clear the social worker went above and beyond her remit by going to the LL for the key. She must have been beside herself with worry. She definitely should not be blamed. It's a hard hard harrowing job.

The guardianship process is quite in depth and in fact, often rules out suitable carers. The extended family being related to a dysfunctional parent doesn't mean that they're unsuitable.

In some cases, a foster carer unrelated to the family is better, of course, if there is no suitable relative. That's how it should be rather than shipping children off and saying they can never ever go back to their parents, as suggested.

Mums interview and photoshoot with The Sun, tells me everything I need to know about her.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25399523/bronson-battersby-mother-fridge/

I think that once someone has a child or children removed by SS this should mean automatic removal of any future dc at birth

This is what I disagree with. If you read to the end, you'd see that some cases are unredeemable, I agree. I strongly disagree with this notion that any removal should punish a person forever - for the reasons I stated

You're talking of 'punishing a person for ever'. You're making it about the parent. That's the problem imo.

It shouldn't be about the parent - it should be about the child. About weighing up risk and making decisions based on probability, to protect that child and future children first and foremost.

If you've failed so badly that you have a child removed from you...it doesn't matter what input you get, what support, what help - the chances of that happening again are high. Too high.

People shouldn't be given chance after chance to redeem themselves, fix themselves, to get to a place where they're able to adequately care for a child - whilst for all that time the child is pinged back and forth between parent and Foster, in and out of the system over and over.

It doesn’t end well in many, many cases. Yet still, as a society, we KEEP ON prioritising the parents 'right' to be a parent OVER the child's right to have a stable loving home and not have their formative years irrevocably fucked up - or in cases such as this one, worse.

A harder line...stopping giving the dregs of society chance after fucking chance whilst children suffer - is the only way things will change.

What a great post, couldn’t have put it better myself! It’s like we as a society have seen too many Disney films and ingested the belief that there’s hope for everyone; everyone is nice and good inside; everyone can change, if we just do ‘enough’ (and there’s no limit on that).

It just isn’t real life and as you said, children pay the price.

@RootVegAndMash

You're welcome to disagree, all I said though, was that I disagree with the one stroke and you're out rule.

I'm most cases, it's not necessary.

Bad for children.

Bad for parents.

It's good, for the most part, that we don't have it.

And I could be misunderstanding you here, but lumping everyone in care proceedings as 'dregs of society' hints that this is more about prejudice than children's best interests.

Some parents are awful, they don't want to engage, don't want to change, and keep having children as if they're replacement items.

And even for those people should be given a chance, not just instantly shunned.

Parents can get children placed in foster care or with the other birth parent/family member for so, so many reasons.

There's nothing Disney about understanding that not all women are like this mother, or the homicidal/terrible parents you see in daily mail articles.

Point of the system is to improve outcomes as far as safe and practical, not create more generational trauma with a blanket rule.

A truly tragic event, RIP little Bronson

It is interesting reading the discussion about children being removed at birth. I am one of 12 children (3 full siblings, 8 half siblings) who were all removed either at birth or before our 1st birthday. I know my birth mother didn't have an easy life (she had her 1st child aged 17) but I cannot forgive her for continuing to have children knowing there was no way she would be allowed to care for them. She was granted supervised contact with us, but the last one of mine she turned up for was when I was 5 - absolutely no contact since.

As a previous social worker, I have also worked with similar families. Some can see no issues with the way they parent, despite their children being on CP plans, in secure accomodation etc and have no desire for change, which just broke my heart. A rare few would try anything and everything to show that they were capable of change, but only a couple actually managed it.

It's just tragic all round.

If anyone wants to fund my PhD I will be doing it on 'circuit breakers'. Those people who manage to give their kids a happy life while having had a chaotic and violent childhood themselves. My MIL was one. One of my friends is one. I suspect it's a combination of nature, nurture, timing and other resources.

I'd rather find out why and encourage it than sterilise people.

I can’t believe this lady has sold her story to the Sun. Her poor baby has been dead for less than three weeks, and her primary thoughts and actions are to blame everyone else and get paid for it. No shame at all.

Someone else pointed out that in the photo she has released of him with the father he looks covered in marks and bruises 😞

There is clearly a lot more to the story she is telling and I hope she is properly investigated.

Well she is pretty guilt ridden if that's anything

https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/bronson-battersby-two-year-old-boy-who-starved-to-death-was-too-small-to-reach-fridge-says-mum-13050740

She said she was still struggling to come to terms with what had happened - and not being there for her son.
"It is haunting me," she said.
"I jolt awake thinking of him wandering around alone, starving.
"He must have been so weak in the end that he decided to give up and hold on to his dad, hugging his legs.
"I will never forgive myself for not being there.
"When I picture him alone in that flat it makes me feel like a failure, cruel, selfish."

When I read horrendous stories concerning children I think of all those women desperate to have a child and who would give a child such a lovely, loving life.
Heartbreaking.
The wee boy.
Life is so bl**dy unfair.

Well she is pretty guilt ridden if that's anything

Is she bollocks. The tone of her words makes me feel sick. The level of imagined detail she went into about his horrific last days. Only days after discovering he's dead.

Total fucking narcissist who looks like she's imagining ££ signs all over this.

She hadn't seen him since November. She live 10 mins walk away. That baby was 2 years old. Despite her being his mum he would have still wanted his mum. I can't believe how you would not see your child for nearly 2 months. It would absolutely break me 😢

This article is why I thank god my godson was taken at birth, fostered and adopted by my friend and her husband aged 1
His family really were what used to be called the underbelly of society. One daughter sexually abused by her stepfather, Next baby taken at birth and godson taken at birth. Mum on drugs. Dad a peadophile. God help some kids.