Do you believe IVF is ok?

[Ididivfama]

I’ve been reading a lot of the surrogacy threads recently (and I know that is a different topic) but I was curious to mumsnet posters ideas of ethics and ivf. You can see from my name that we ended up doing it, but I won’t be horribly offended by different views. I’m more curious.

Obviously it’s ’unnatural’ as a process and there is the issue of what happens to any extra blastocysts (I use the term blastocyst as they are pre-embryo stage and calling them embryos makes people view it differently - at least I did!) Even so, would you count leaving blastocysts to decay as abortion? I never did but I’ve read that view now so I’m curious as to how many people view it like that.

As is pointed out on the surrogacy threads - no one is ‘entitled’ to have a child. Is that the same for us ivf parents?

It doesn't matter who disagrees with you:

If they have children: selfish, they don't understand the pain because they had children easily

If they had children with IVF: they're gatekeeping it despite benefitting themselves, selfish

If they didn't do IVF: they're bitter because they didn't do it themselves and don't want you to be happy

If they're child-free: lack empathy because the don't understand your pain of not having children

So nobody can disagree with you.

I 100% support IVF.

What on earth was women with PCOS being allowed to exist, which of course they are, have to do with it.

I don't think the ethical considerations around IVF are as acute as surrogacy, but people will have reservations - which they are allowed to have. And drawing an equivalence to these concerns and suggesting that women with pcos shouldn't exist is dramatic nonsense.

And yeah, had people rushed on to an IVF pregnancy thread to derail daily chit chat with deep ethical concerns that would be unkind, but if you start a thread about people who have concerns about IVF and they have the temerity to tell you their concerns about IVF... that's a discussion.

Because there was a post about how ivf would give these issues to more children and isn’t that an issue. It is a discussion.

I think it is important for people to be able to calmly share their opinion. and listen to others when it has specifically been asked for, especially when it is not the majority one. Otherwise people only hear an echo chamber. It is right that people know not everyone agrees with doing IVF themselves. People do have their own personal lines they won't cross that have been decided in advance. That doesn't mean we can't be happy for people who have become pregnant though IVF, or sympathise with those who haven't managed to. I'm also opposed to any form of surrogacy but that wasn't the question.

@titchy But the vast, vast majority of people who get cancer have already reproduced. Natural selection would not prevent the continuation of most genes associated with cancer.

@Youdontgivemeflowers

I don’t agree with ivf because there are too many unwanted babies and I think there should be more efforts to find parents for those kids. I’m also concerned about the raised levels of complications and defects at birth

By this logic, shouldn't everyone adopt if they want to be a parent, rather than creating a new child naturally?

Yeah I'm sure. I'm 100% pro IVF, I'm not having a dig. I just had no idea that there's a statistically increased risk of malformations etc

It's interesting reading, if you like science

Of course people are allowed different opinions, however I don't know how people who have not experienced infertility can have such an informed opinion as someone who has. I didn't have a clue how painful infertility is until I experienced it myself. I had IVF to conceive my child and it took me 3 years to decide whether or not to do it. No one wakes up one day thinking I'm going for IVF today because I feel like it, they have usually been on a very long and painful journey to get there and make that decision.

I have a child born through donor egg IVF and DH and I have been open both with her and everyone we know including colleagues over the years (we don't go round lecturing people - just if it comes up in conversation).

Never had any rude or critical comments. IVF is very common here in London partly because of the age you tend to be once housing and jobs are secure.

Once heard 8 or 9 year old DD explaining the in vitro process in detail to a classmate on a Teams call 😀.

My infertility is due to endometriosis which the NHS was bugger all help with.

People on Mumsnet feel much more strongly about this than the general population ime.

My DH is alive because he was blasted with radiation, given drugs to make his immune system work better, then had surgery to remove part of one of his organs. The "natural" thing to do would have been to leave the cancer to kill him. I'm pretty comfortable with another unnatural procedure to allow us to have a child together. I lose an egg every month. This obsession with "natural" being better is a weird modern luxury belief and belongs in the bin.

Thought the same when I read that. Just because she didn't want to keep trying doesn't mean we should stop. I am currently debating using our last embryo to try for a third.

I don't think you need to have a personal experience of a thing to form a principle around that thing and to consider it on shaky ethical ground.

I think egg donation, is highly ethically dubious, it's not the same as straight up IVF, but my opinions on egg donation don't require the personal experience of heart break either as an infertile woman or a fertile donator - but I have personal objections based on principles around the process.

I don't agree with others on this board who have objections around IVF in and of itself. But I don't think their objections are rendered irrelevant because it doesn't meet the standard of not coming from a place of deep heartache.

@ExtremelyJoyous children born through IVF having more health issues is complete BS. Why would this be the case? In the case of IVF with sperm from a sperm bank children are far LESS likely to have health issues because the sperm has gone through rigorous testing and has to be completely free of any kind of genetic disease

No

Did what you read explain why there are increased risks? What is the actual reason? Because everything I’ve read (and I’ve read a lot about it) says there are no more risks than doing it “naturally”. I know lots of IVF toddlers and young children (mine included) and none of them have any health conditions whatsoever

My IVF children seem pretty healthy so far. The one natural pregnancy I had ended in a 10 week miscarriage which I think was chromosome issues as my DH is a lot older. Better for Me to go for IVF!

Has it ? You can't analyse the thousand or so spermatazoa in every ejaculate banked. Each one's geentic make up is unique. I cannot begin to understand how this could possibly work....

Dr Google says otherwise.

I wouldn’t call Dr Google science.

A lot of the studies include women who have severe health problems anyway (which is why they went down the ivf route). Not ivf in general. Not great studies.

Wow, OP. Your IVF thread really brings all the eugenicists to the yard.

I do have an issue with the NHS funding infertility treatment. I have no moral or philosophical objections to IVF, however. I do have issues with donor eggs and sperm-I don't think we know enough about the impact it has on the child conceived. And I have massive issues with surrogacy both for the child and the surrogate.

@CurlewKate we do know a lot about it. there's tens of thousands of adults now who have come from donor sperm or egg who are able to talk about their experience. the overarching theme is that they have no concerns from it providing they are told very early on so there is no surprise or feeling lied to and are not from anonymous donations.

To the people on the thread who say their issue with IVF is that there are already lots of children waiting to be adopted, do you believe that everyone should adopt then?

Natural conception without intervention is adding an extra person to the planet, just like IVF. If you truly believe that overpopulation and / or children waiting to be adopted are reasons to be against IVF, surely you're against adding to the population in general and think everyone should adopt instead of conceiving?