Do you believe IVF is ok?

[Ididivfama]

I’ve been reading a lot of the surrogacy threads recently (and I know that is a different topic) but I was curious to mumsnet posters ideas of ethics and ivf. You can see from my name that we ended up doing it, but I won’t be horribly offended by different views. I’m more curious.

Obviously it’s ’unnatural’ as a process and there is the issue of what happens to any extra blastocysts (I use the term blastocyst as they are pre-embryo stage and calling them embryos makes people view it differently - at least I did!) Even so, would you count leaving blastocysts to decay as abortion? I never did but I’ve read that view now so I’m curious as to how many people view it like that.

As is pointed out on the surrogacy threads - no one is ‘entitled’ to have a child. Is that the same for us ivf parents?

Well shouldn’t you just have not been trying to conceive if the world is overpopulated? If you don’t need more children in the world then you don’t need more children however they are conceived.

People often ask about whether the NHS can afford financing IVF, so I thought I'd see if I can find some figures.

Apparently, the NHS spends around £68m per year on IVF. link

The total budget of the NHS is £168.8 billion link

The figures aren't perfect and there's a bit of a mismatch in the years, but this means that 0.04% of the NHS budget goes on IVF. It's nothing.

Someone else asked about the correlation with NHS and allergies, autism, etc. Since 1991, there have been 390,000 births from IVF in the UK. link

Since, then, there's been around 22.4 million children born. link

That makes around 1.75% of all children born by IVF. It's not a massive number.

There aren't any offensive opinions on this thread. A few people say they disagree or feel uncomfortable with blastocysts being destroyed. How is that offensive and awful, sorry?

Like any topic ever, if you're sensitive and know you will feel upset, maybe give it a miss. I hide threads all the time.

I don't understand how people can sit there and say they definitely wouldn't do IVF when these people either have children or are pregnant.
How how how would you know what you would do if you couldn't conceive????

Because people are idiots. The opinions on here being thrown around like they’re fact are staggering. People are hugely misinformed regarded donor conception as well, but it doesn’t stop them bleating on. The post about the actual cost to the NHS is very interesting. Not that those with the agenda “it’s not lifesaving” will give a shit 🤷🏻‍♀️

But then you could argue that about anything. 45 years without issues is kind find good run imo.

I have sympathies with women suffering infertility.

However we have such a backwards approach to it.

A lot of infertility is age related. But instead of changing society to make it easier for women to have DCs when they are younger we make women go through all these medical procedures to fit in with society's (ie men's) demands.

Unless infertility is caused by something like cancer treatment where the eggs/embryos were harvested pre chemotherapy I don't think the NHS should fund it.

As for the ethics: Yes it makes me uncomfortable. It's not religious but I feel similarly about contraception that doesn't prevent fertilisation.

I also don't trust doctors enough to let them play god like this.

Then there's the horror stories like the wrong embryos being implanted?!

The IVF culture hasn't benefitted women overall. It gives false hope that delaying motherhood will always result in happy outcomes.

Enabling & encouraging older motherhood is dangerous. It increases maternal death and morbidity.

It's an industry that's being driven by profit.

Did you have a look at the link to the 2020 paper ?

I think IVF is fine, however I don't agree that IVF is a medical need like any other, as you've suggested. You don't die from not having a baby. Intervention is wanted, not needed.

If the only criterion for medical intervention was whether or not you are going to die, then millions of people would be expected to live in perpetual agony or discomfort or with severe impairments.

I don't mean to sound insensitive I honestly haven't looked much into IVF. But if you or your partner have a condition causing infertility (pcos, low sperm count etc) could that not be passed on to your child genetically if you force reproduction through IVF?
Apologies if that sounds harsh but just curious

Some of opinions on this thread are quite staggering and no doubt mostly from people who haven't struggled to conceive. The emotional turmoil of infertility should not be underestimated, it's horrendous.

Yeah her argument is totally flawed.

The world is overpopulated so IVF shouldn't be allowed, but if I can get pregnant via lots of sex it doesn't make a difference to the population....

Exactly 😂 makes absolutely no sense

You can still conceive with those conditions. You can also need it as a result of accident or cancer. And some things are absolutely not genetic. By that logic, anyone who has allergies or any kind of disability/issue should not have sex.

Are we to ban anyone with health problems that can be inherited from procreating? Where do you draw the line?

People with PCOS and low sperm count can still live long and healthy lives, and can conceive naturally (albeit its harder for them than other people and can take longer, hence why IVF is often offered).

I know, definitely gets you suicidal. It’s literally a life purpose for a lot of people so there’s a real lack of empathy. For many humans their whole point is to procreate. Many childfree people may not have that drive (and that’s ok) but they have other drives that they expect to be catered to.

I agree that infertility is horrendous. However, I don't think that means that these huge moral questions should be exempt from debate, appropriately and sensitively conducted, or that it's true (as some PPs have suggested) that "you can't possibly say what you'd do until you're in that situation". I suffer from infertility: it's excruciatingly painful. But I don't believe IVF is the moral answer. Suffering from infertility hasn't changed my beliefs.

That’s fine and I think debate it good. I am curious about what your answer is?

@Neurodiversitydoctor

Well I never! I've just gone off and done my own reading - there are increased health risks associated with IVF babies such as congenital malformations!

I had no idea, I thought it'd be equal to getting pregnant naturally!

I guess we'll learn more about it in the coming years, and how to over come/ reduce these complications

For those suggesting the infertile adopt, since there are so many unwanted children, shouldn't that apply equally to
fertile couples?

Don't TTC; just stick with contraception and adopt?

Well I will let you know if my baby is suddenly malformed or damaged 🙄

The ivf babies I know are incredibly healthy as are their parents (apart from some fertility issues). I also know two in their 30s and they seem to be having pretty great lives.

They've not figured out what causes PCOS and most women that have it aren't even aware that they have it. Same with men with low sperm counts, lots will father a child and not even be aware they have a low count.
Most causes of infertility aren't genetic issues either.
And in this sense you are saying that anybody with any health issues shouldn't procreate. Eg if diabetes runs in the family don't have a baby, if asthma runs in the family don't have a baby, if coeliac disease runs in the family don't have a baby, if the women in your family carry the breast cancer gene then don't have a baby.
Point being various conditions and diseases get passed on to our offspring and lots not knowingly.

I do think that. It’s like this pro life people in America who say adoption is the answer then have 6 kids of their own.

I also think women with PCOS should be allowed to exist and have kids of their own, even if they also have PCOS. Just me, maybe!

This stance really bugs me too. Why should it be up to the infertile community to adopt children? There's a whole lot of baggage with adoption and I would never want to adopt instead of having a child of my own. For me, it just doesn't compare.