DRY HARD 2: DRY HARDER! Dry January 2024, Thread#2 🧃🧋

[HPLikecraft]

Thread#2...

Let's keep going!

The risk of drinking any amount is greater than zero - this is the case for most things in life - from getting out of bed, coming down the stairs, a friend died doing just that and that's before you have even left the house! Living your life involves risks.
I think loosely using the word risk when it comes to the effect of how much alcohol you drink is not helpful - drinking any amount of alcohol carries a risk - like most things in life. Even David Nutt in Drink! describes a negative behaviour (can't remember exactly which one) as increasing your risk by 20% - and whilst that sounds like a huge number, a 20% increase of a tiny number is still a tiny number but it sounds dramatic and scary to those not comfortable with percentages of percentages and it reeks of scare tactics - he really should not have described an increase in risk in such a way given his audience was the general public, maybe it was an oversight but the editor should have picked it up.
In the literature (esp quit lit) there is a lot of vaguery around risk and people find it hard to put it in perspective - it always suggests an agenda and what else would you expect from quit lit. Where is it not defined and I always ask why?

Another dry day yesterday. And today!
Thanks all for granting me absolution for my slip up... not sure I deserved it.
My DD and her partner have unexpectedly come to visit, so I worried that I'd be tempted, but I'll still stay dry. They're easy company and not massive drinkers so it shouldn't be hard.

It's easy to get bogged down with (often seemingly conflicting) statistics @asleepattheshop . You're right that our perception of a statistic is not necessarily on a par with its actual practical significance. So I tend to just work on the principle "drink is bad".

I'm still not sure whether it's healthier to drink a small amount or nothing at all (them pesky conflicting statistics again) but I do know that careful moderation is one hundred times more difficult than abstinence for many, including me; and any drinking will lead to more drinking.
I could never be one of those one "medicinal" sherry per evening ladies.

Ooh, David Tennant as a creepy doctor sounds good @pangolinfan . We need a new series to binge so I'll be checking that one out!

Hello. Reporting to say that my completely dry period lasted until yesterday.

Yesterday was = very small amount. I don’t feel regretful about it. Even though it means I won’t be able to say that I’ve done ex days AF now. A bit like losing my Wordle streak, ha!

I feel like it was useful in the way that others have found - ie confirming that, actually, I haven’t been missing out. It’s not a need. But it was something that had developed into a very regular habit and the fact that it’s a habit I’ve not been happy about and found difficult to break made having that habit a much bigger deal.

So went out for food with my young adult child, who was making a choice between a drink I wouldn’t want a glug of (beer) and a drink I would (cider). I made sure I drank lots water waiting for our food, and then when I was half way through my food had a small amount of cider (couple of fingers worth). It was ok, but I felt like I could have just had appletise.

I don’t go out very often so the important thing is that I stick to not drinking in the house and have that as an absolute rule.

Morning all, it's been a busy week so I haven't posted for a few days, but I'm still dry. If I can get through another Friday night (debatable!) then that will be 40 days 😊. I'm still planning on going back to it at some point, but just haven't had a good enough excuse to break the streak yet.

I really don't want to start drinking after a difficult day again. I've had quite a lot of external stresses since Christmas - any one of which would previously have been medicated with a big glass of "you've earned it" wine. But I'm coping much better with stuff without it.

And my preschooler has finally (finally!!) started sleeping through the night (four out of the last five nights) which combined with the lack of low lying hangover is making a huge difference to my day.

Hope everyone has a good weekend whether you're moderating, abstaining or like me still just feeling your way.

That sounds really positive @Monstamio I'm going to have a dry Friday and Sunday, and enjoy a drink when we go out for DHs birthday lunch on Saturday. The plan is still to try to measure units, so I'm going to look carefully at what I'm drinking and hopefully intersperse it with lime and soda!!

Happy weekend everyone

Still here, still AF and planning on staying so for today. Some stresses the last few days but thankfully no immediate thoughts to reach for a conciliatory glass of wine, so some progress on new habits.
Finding Wellity's blog very thought provoking.
However you choose to spend this weekend, may it be a good one for you.

@Neptunium93 you recommended a book upthread - I think it had 'in defence' in the title? Can you remind me of the title and the author please (saves me going through bests part of one hundred pages!)

Maté expertly argues that early childhood experiences – particularly those involving stress, trauma, or a lack of emotional nurturance – significantly impact a child’s brain development, and that these very adverse experiences during such a critical period can lead to a brain ending up neurologically pre-disposed to seek external coping mechanisms, such as addiction or addictive behaviours, later in life

Cripes. That's DB to a T. Difficult baby, I'm pretty sure DM didn't bond with him (we were living with DGPs at the time and I recall years later DGM saying about the times she'd taken DB off DM because she was afraid of what DM might do to him if he didn't stop screaming) and they had such an uneasy and distant relationship (DM and DB) all her life - example, DM emigrated to Aus and DB visited her twice in 20 years (and one of those was when she was dying).

Fascinating book, adding that to the read list.

Another visit from Mrs Bitchy for me today...

https://wellitywellness.com/2024/02/09/dry-day-40-mrs-bitchy-strikes-again/

Morning all. Day 40!! 😄I can hardly believe it. Well done to everyone.

So I tried the Lucky Saint Hazy IPA last night... I had to research what hazy actually means in this context - it isn't just the appearance as it turns out. They add more hops ("dry-hopping") during the brewing process. I'm not sure I liked it, but it may grow on me. Interestingly, the sedative effect was so strong that I had to head to bed straight after dinner.

@wellitywellness , I'm not sure what book that was... If it had 'defence' in the title, I can only think of 'In Defence of Capitalism' by Rainer Zitelmann - a brilliant read, but not sure why I would have referred to it. I remember mentioning 'The Good News About Booze' by Tony Edwards, so perhaps it was that? BTW, your second response to Mrs Bitchy sums it up for me too. She makes a good point though, when she says that anyone 'counting down the days' may not have completely reset their relationship with alcohol. I think I've carried on this far to prove to myself that wine is genuinely optional for me.

The sun has come out here which is such a relief after yesterday. Happy weekends all, whether they be dry, damp or sodden! 😊

That was it! (The good news one). Thanks!

I've just discovered that he has written a new one called "The Very Good News About Wine". I'm ordering it and will report back.

Well who wouldn't want to know the Good News About Wine, another book added to the Quit Lit binge reads - I might need some support to stop reading stuff like this! I think balance and a genuinely dispassionate voice is hard to find. When you reflect on how very poor the science is around food and the effect it has on the body - how on earth can the science on alcohol consumption be any more certain? It is hard to know who to believe the agenda in the quit lit is often very obvious and leads to a lack of credibility - of course, when you argue against it you are accused of only doing so because you have a problem with alcohol. I have the same issue with the question - Has anyone you know expressed a concern about your alcohol intake? to determine whether you have a problem - I've always felt the person with the concern has to be considered - not all concerned people are equally valid. (Disclaimer no one had expressed concern for my drinking - is that because I belong to a strong drinking culture?)

My Dad was a whiskey man - bottle a day and often more for probably 70 years, he lived a big life, was excessive in everything he did - he died 87 years old. When he died he had Oesophageal Cancer - one of the risks of excessive drinking (noted in the Good News about Wine) - especially spirits - he did not die from that cancer. Amazingly his liver was in good.
His brother was teetotal - never touched a drop, also got Oesophageal Cancer, 10 years younger than my dad, he supposedly lived a clean life - and died from that cancer at 81 years old.

Life isn't fair and you can't always beat the odds.

Just checking in, 58 days AF now, so I’m pleased with that.

I want to have a drink (not right now at 9am 🤣but just in general) but am worried to start drinking again, as what if before I know it I’m back drinking each evening.

Morning all. Another epic one today, all about the 'chicken and egg' effect of alcohol (or other addictive substances / behaviours) on the brain.

https://wellitywellness.com/2024/02/10/dry-day-41-hungry-ghosts-the-brain/

Morning all. 5 days to go for me (including today) if I stick to my 45 day plan. I would have settled for 6 weeks, but starting again on a Monday just feels too decadent after this long!

@asleepattheshop , I know what you mean. There is so little room for nuance and complexity when it comes to the various institutions and Quit Litters, who are so invested in persuading people to give up, when the evidence for doing so is contradictory at best. (I think I lost all trust in the medical authorities when they equalised the 'low risk' limits for men and women.) Clearly some people shouldn't drink, because they become addicted and end up drinking too much. But for most of us it's a question of getting the balance right, which is hard for some in a culture like ours. On the positive side, I think the various sobriety-based organisations (such as Alcohol Change, Club Soda et al) are helping to change the culture so that it is easier to not drink or to drink less.

I'm about halfway through 'The Very Good News About Wine', and, like the author's previous book, it's a breath of fresh air.

@wellitywellness your posts are amazing and are really keeping me going thank you!

I haven’t posted for a while but am doing well. Had three days with no more than two small glasses of wine over early Feb which I’m happy with. Since then have been a bit unwell and expecting treatment in a week or so’s time. I feel fine but have a long running joint issue that needs attention. Needless to say I’m super happy to be going into that knowing that I will have been more or less AF since the new year, and I’m not dreading the blood tests coming back quite as much as I was! I’m also feeling more rested and better prepared for the recovery period!

Is anyone up for trying an AF lent? I feel better that I know I can manage most cravings with an AF beer or two now, but a bit longer to consolidate the benefits can only be a good thing

PoppyAndParsnip I'm hoping to roll on in to Lent AF. Best wishes for your treatment and recovery.

Thank you @PoppyAndParsnip - I really appreciate anyone still reading at this point.

@Neptunium93 I've downloaded those two books now and will also feed back :)

As for now, some more on Hungry Ghosts for the moment (the book that just keeps on giving IMHO) https://wellitywellness.com/2024/02/11/dry-day-42-hungry-ghosts-mindset/

Morning all, hope Saturday night went well, wherever you are on your Dry / Damp journey.

I tried the Lucky Saint IPA in a different glass last night and liked it this time. I think it can make a difference what you pour the beer into (as with wine).

@PoppyAndParsnip , I won't be joining you for AF Lent - I feel like I've done it already! But good luck with it and I hope you are back on your feet very soon.

I think I've got to the point where the benefits of being AF have plateaued, and that 6 weeks or so has been the right amount of time to recover from my relatively higher consumption over the past 2 years. So, having felt anxious about starting drinking again, I'm now feeling positive. A large part of that is down to having read Tony Edwards' second book, The Very Good News About Wine, in two sittings. My thoughts as follows...

TE is a journalist by trade, so very readable. He crams in a LOT of science and data, but it didn't make my head ache, and made me smile along the way. His central thesis hasn't changed since the first book, but he felt a need to reprise it (and to focus specifically on wine) because of what he sees as the increasingly prohibitionist stance of the medical authorities and governments based on unsound evidence. For those short on time I'd recommend heading straight for Chapter 14 where he talks about the amount of misinformation behind a lot of what we are told about alcohol, for example cancer risk. The reality is more complex than we are led to believe, and often the complete opposite.

@wellitywellness , he includes a reference to the work of Tim Spector, which I'm sure you will appreciate! He also echoes Gabor Mate's take on addiction, citing the correlation between bad early life experiences and alcoholism.

The upshot for me is that moderate drinking is beneficial, it's just a question of dosage. For most, and women in particular, daily consumption of around a third of a bottle seems to be the sweet spot where the benefits are gained without adding risk (the trough of the J Curve). That will vary considerably based on genetics, gender, and individual tolerance of course. (For me I think I will still need AF days during the week, for example, whereas some won't.)

Where I take issue with him is on his view of organisations like Alcohol Change. I think they play a useful role in making sobriety more acceptable (whether occasional or permanent). He also doesn't think much of Dry January! But overall I am so glad to have read this book. It's so easy to go down a rabbit hole that ends with any amount of alcohol being hazardous, because so much of the propaganda out there leads us in that direction.

Incidentally, a lot of the 'Very Good News' applies especially to red wine. If anyone can recommend a variety that would appeal to a lifelong white wine drinker I would be most grateful 🤔🍷😊

@Neptunium93 great summary and thanks for the good wishes, I see what you mean about having done lent already!

I’d also love to know a good red that would substitute my love for white wine and champagne! I think some Pinot noirs are quite nice, maybe chocolate block or similar as well. I feel like for me it needs to be on the higher priced side to make it 1) worth the units and 2) not something I would finish as quickly!

Incidentally, a lot of the 'Very Good News' applies especially to red wine. If anyone can recommend a variety that would appeal to a lifelong white wine drinker I would be most grateful 🤔🍷😊

I had a couple of glasses of fairly decent Cotes du Rhone from Waitrose last night - have had peer at the label and it's Cellier des Dauphins, IIRC £ 6.99 a bottle. Waitrose also do what they label as Good Ordinary Claret; and I can also recommend Luis Phillipe Edwards merlot or malbec, also in Waitrose and around £ 8.99 a bottle.

Any recommendations for white? I swore off it years ago after getting morning after horrors on it.

Thanks @MrsDanversGlidesAgain , looks like a trip to Waitrose is on the cards! Those are all reasonably priced too. I think the Claret might be too heavy for me, but the others sound interesting.

For white wines, I find there are great options in the Sainsburys Taste the Difference range. The Bordeaux Sauvignon Blanc is lovely if you like something not at all sweet. There is a nice Pinot Grigio too. Neither of them have ever given me a headache. For a red wine drinker, a Chardonnay with oak flavours might be preferable though. Chardonnays tend to be more complex / heavier.

NB it may be the extra sulphites in white wine that gave you headaches... an Organic one may be a good option? They have much lower levels.

Waitrose do have reasonably priced wines and they do offers as well. I know the prices I've quoted sound a bit low for wine but unless my palate is completely shot they taste OK to me. And they do have pricier ones, of course. My hand hovers over the latter occasionally but I can feel my parsimonious ancestors at my shoulder pursing their lips 😆

@Neptunium93 Would suggest Pinot Noir as your gateway red wine - I'd steer towards New Zealand. Malbec can be fruity and drinkable. Make sure you let red wine breathe, decant it or pour out the first bit to increase surface area exposed in the bottle - it makes a huge difference to any red, even the cheaper ones. If you forget to let it breathe pour it from one vessel to another a few times. I'd breathe it for a few hours if possible - some need a day! Avoid Cabernet Sauvignon - it's too oaky. And if you buy French you need to spend £££ or really know your stuff. I am a big fan of Rioja - not terribly fashionable though.🙄