Amanda and Giovanni

[CombatLingerie]

Apologies if there is already a thread but I couldn’t find one. What on earth has gone on between Amanda Abbington and Giovanni Pernice during Strictly?AA is apparently taking legal action against the BBC claiming she has PTSD.

Would you be able to share anything about your experienced MissusWeasley, before you bow out? I'm very interested in this issue having had similar experiences myself. Only if you want to obviously.

Just common or garden sexual harrassment that so many women have experience of. I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences also. I think so many women have, that I find it strange to jump to a position of disbelief. There are obviously exponentially more experiences of it vs false accusations hence my strong discomfort in labelling women ‘ridiculous’ or making faux naive (or actual naive) statements about the location in which something allegedly occurred being the defining factor.

Obviously, we don’t know what Amanda is alleging, it’s even sexual at all, but I think the conversation around this is relating to that possibility.

How unpleasant.
So if I go to the theatre and somebody sexually assaults me in the bar, you would be saying it would be unreasonable of me to be traumatised because ‘I only went to the theatre’?

No one knows what's happened but he's kept his mouth shut, and she hasn't. Only 3 of his ex partners have come out with any kind of alleged complaint the rest have been nothing but positive about him.

He is continuing to work whereas she is probably making herself unemployable the more this goes on. If she's lying then no one will want to employ her again in fact they probably don't already in case something like this happens again.

Who knows whether what she says is true but have we learnt nothing from other innocent people who've had their names dragged through the mud?

Obviously, we don’t know what Amanda is alleging, it’s even sexual at all, but I think the conversation around this is relating to that possibility.

I haven't gained that impression at all and I think it's really unfair of strangers to speculate or infer any such thing, particularly while understanding that We Don't Know.

Obviously if any accusations were made clear, then they could be investigated or refuted. At the moment, all that is clear is that Amanda is suffering some distress that she relates to her experience training for the series and so it's not easy for anyone to defend themself.

Whilst absolutely believing potential victims' pain, it should always go without saying that the law states innocent until proven guilty, not, found guilty by the court of insinuation.

I'm so sorry you've been through all that MissusWeasley. I've experienced plenty of it as well and while I would obviously rather these things hadn't happened, I actually find arguments and being shouted at far worse in terms of my own stress response (everyone's so different). This is mostly because I have multiple (invisible) health conditions that make these a far more overwhelming experience than they are for your average person.

I've read quite a lot about individual stress responses (they are involuntary and vary wildly from person to person) and they do typically depend on things like underlying illnesses and health conditions as well as an individual's baseline physiology. And also the person's individual circumstances, eg how much stress they're living with as standard due to what's going on with their family, health etc because stress is cumulative. Some people are walking around with baseline stress levels so high it would seem obvious that they're going to be more susceptible to trauma. Autistic people, for example, often report that just hearing a door slamming can create an extreme stress response that rivals their response to situations that most would recognise as actually dangerous. Being subject to these stressors on a regular basis even over a relatively short period can cause trauma for them (these are now being described as sensory trauma). I've spoken to people with other health conditions that cause chronic stress and they tell me they experience similar in their day to day lives.

None of this is proof that anybody has done anything wrong here but I think there needs to be more awareness about how trauma works and the fact that it can be caused by far less than many people understand. If someone sets a boundary that is repeatedly ignored then there are grounds for complaining. The fact that there are 3 people who have publicly said they experienced quite a high level of distress should be taken seriously in my opinion.

PTSD is triggered by all sorts of things. I was a bit surprised by some of the stuff that happened in traitors series 1 (I’m only halfway through). I would have been at risk of lasting ramifications from some of that.

But it’s only a game show.

You’ve misunderstood me. I specifically said that we don’t know what issues she’s referring to. But that when we’re more widely discussing women coming forward and being ridiculed it’s often regarding sexual harrassment allegations. I was drawing a distinction, not a parallel.

That all makes a lot of sense. It’s like a full bucket, where one more drop sends it cascading over the edge. Whereas for someone else, it might just be an individual drop of water. And I can very much see how being shouted at could invoke that response, particularly when it’s sustained, and you’re unable to remove yourself from the scenario. I can imagine situations in a work context, where it becomes very hard to remove yourself.

I think threads like these and peoples opinions on women that come forward, even your comment, are a very good reason why other women don’t come forward.

Who knows whether what she says is true but have we learnt nothing from other innocent people who've had their names dragged through the mud?

You talk like this is a common occurrence. It's not.

In fact famous guilty men often get away scot-free, while their victims are the ones having their names dragged through the mud.

But nobody has been sexually assaulted here. What's ridiculous is the amount of projection going on here and the simplistic assumption that just because he's a man he's done something bad.

Your assumption is also simplistic. You are assuming nothing happened. You can’t know that unless you were there the whole time.

It’s likely to be more complicated than you are thinking about. Neither something obvious and straightforward nor nothing.

Something that has massively distressed her, which Giovanni hasn’t understood

It doesn’t mean he behaved differently from his previous partners, or that he did something very obviously wrong.

Just that she wants something looked at more carefully, and understood better.

Noone needs to declare either of them a villain.

I’ve had my name dragged through the mud.

It happened to be a bloke. It would have been equally upsetting for my bully/accuser to have been a woman but for the first few years, his word was always taken over mine. The sympathy was his.

The other person who threatened me at work? Also a man.

It may indeed not be a common occurrence so perhaps I’ve just been unlucky.

I have no idea what has happened in this instance and two sides of the story would be useful.

But something has gone awry here and to dismiss it out of hand is unfair and unhelpful.

I agree @pickledandpuzzled

AA leaving the show early, may well feel to her like an act of failure, as a professional, and she may well feel embarrassed (for want of a better word), and may well be looking to mitigate how she looks professionally. This is just an idea before all your Gio haters come for me.

Well, we don’t actually know that, but I was given an example of something traumatic happening somewhere unthreatening - I wasn’t being literal (as I suspect you know) and nor did I say anything about man = bad. I was simply pointing out that saying ‘traumatised by a dance show’ is pretty silly.

What you said made perfect sense.

Gio haters? That’s weird, I think there’s just a few of us saying Amanda should also be given the benefit of the doubt.

Does anyone remember it being reported that Rose would turn her back to G when he shouted at her? I thought I read that but can't find it anywhere now. Maybe I'm thinking of a different scenario on a different show altogether.

I remember something like that.

Rose definitely said she took her hearing aid out (or something like that) on ITT when asked about how training was. She and Gio were joking though, so it all seemed in good fun.

Yy she either turned it off or took it out

Interesting. Doesn't sound like the healthiest of dynamics unless it was just made up as a joke.

I thought that was quite telling though - in a way she had an advantage over other partners because she could just shut him out.

I remember at the time thinking it was a bit odd, that she'd choose to be deaf during training so she couldn't hear him.