Voting to 'Get the Tories Out'

[DewHopper]

Pro Labour posters are all over this platform telling posters to vote for whoever gets the Tories out. It does not seem to matter who it is as long as voting for them gets the Tories out nationally.

It's a worrying voting strategy from my pov but I tend to vote at constituency level. If I had an excellent Tory MP who cared about the things I cared about and served their constituents well, I would vote for them. Similarly Labour ( I would absolutely vote for Rosie Duffield) or Independent.

Do those people who will just vote for anyone as longs as this will oust the Tories - and what could be a very good MP - ever consider the effects of this locally? They may have got the Tories out at a national level but saddled themselves with a useless MP who does nothing for the locality.

Take for example women's rights. I am a gender critical woman and care very deeply about the erosion of women's single sex spaces etc. I am sure that many of the 'Tories out at all costs' people feel the same. The pro Labour people keep telling us that Starmer will be better for women's rights BUT if you vote on a single issue - getting the Tories out - you may well elect a hopeless constituency MP who is TWAW and who will be standing up to every pro woman move that Starmer makes. I worry that there will be a lot of these in the next parliament.

So should we be voting on the single issue - get the Tories out? I don't think so - AIBU?

Yes, I think you make a good point, but I think tactical voting might get rid of even more of them. I think that many seats which would previously have been seen as safe Conservative seats might be potentially winnable by other parties.

There were many posters on a recent thread, some of whom are on this thread, were saying that the Tories are the protectors of women's rights.
In fact they have been saying the same for months.

@AdamRyan your list is the public allegations, I expect there are more where the victim has not made a complaint to the police given the misogyny found in some forces.

I'm not complaining, simply making a point. I hadn't noticed anything vicious. Again, your interest in me is noted and appreciated.

Now I think I'll return to addressing the thought provoking points people are making about tactical voting.

Right but should that mean that the Labour Party doesn't have to answer questions on these issues?

Because it seems to me that some posters think it's reasonable to ask questions on other policies like funding the NHS or the environment where the Tories are worse, but not on women's rights ?

I don't see the difference? Why is it ok to ask questions on some issues but not others?

Not aimed at the same pp but I am glad that so many have ventured over to a thread with gender ideology in the op given how bored people were of the topic

But yes Labour will further gender ideology to the detriment of women. So when it happens there’ll not be much surprise.

Anyone who wants to vote tory to ensure protection of women's rights should stop to consider their treatment of women during the pandemic. Maternity restrictions being the most obvious.

I say this as a GC woman.

So should we be voting on the single issue - get the Tories out? I don't think so - AIBU?

Surely the whole point of democracy is that there's no "should" about it.

Each of us has one vote to cast however we as individuals see fit, whether that's to keep out a candidate who once tweeted something you didn't like, or because you prefer another candidate's party's policy on x issue (or most issues). I'm sure lots of people will vote based on people's names or photos or what their friends or favourite influencer said. So it makes sense that some people would use their vote to oust a candidate representing a party they don't want in power. Why is that reason different from all the other factors to take into account when deciding how to vote?

We all have different priorities and strategies when it comes to voting, which is kind of the point.

@EasternStandard give it rest. We don’t know that. It’s just fear mongering. What we do know is that this Conservative government is incompetent, had 13 years to achieve something and hasn’t. I’m struggling to know what your issue is with this.

Genuine question.

Neither party is proposing changes to either the GRA or the Eq Act, the Law will not be changed (the Tories have had 13 years to do so, not unreasonable to think they will continue their public stance)

and the party that introduced more GRC clinics and lowered the fee to £5 is the Tory party, 100s more men can now say they are woman (416 last year alone)

So, why do you think its Labour that will further GI and to the detriment of women?

It doesn't make any sense.

The thread title is "voting to get the Tories out" and the end of the OP asks whether that should be a sole motivation when voting.

People will of course vote as they wish for a variety of reasons. I live in a constituency with a decent Labour MP who is likely to be reelected. If I didn't, I might well be voting to get the sitting Tory MP out. In my previous constituency that would mean voting Labour, as it happens.

YABU and a bit ridiculous @DewHopper. The majority of voters didn't vote Tory at the last election. That doesn't make them Labour supporters. Many people who did vote Tory in the last GE will not be voting for them this time.

The Tory party has wrecked the UK with their arrogance, incompetence, rape culture, chaos, corruption and lies. It's no surprise the country wants to unite to get them out of power. Even their own MPs are leaving in large numbers.🤷‍♀️

It affected the balance of power in 2010. That worked well.

Its not an accident that Labour policy is "want Labour, vote Labour".

No chance.

Just because pro Labour don’t like hearing about it it’s still the reality. That’s a Labour problem not a voter one

I know many avoid FWR as they ‘hate it’ or whatever but if you are interested there’s loads on why Starmer is a risk on this issue.

Do you actually want to know?

Depends where your priorities lie.

IMO local politicians are largely ineffectual.

My priorities are NHS, education, policing and children's services so I will absolutely vote tactically to get this government out, if needs be.

Not sure I could stretch to voting Reform, though. The self-hatred it would cause would be difficult to manage.

@lifeturnsonadime i think Starmer has been asked about gender issues. And tried to answer but he can’t please some whatever he says. On the other hand Sunak seems to get no real grilling about it, utters a few platitudes and suddenly he’s the saviour of all women despite actual real life women being affected negatively by many Tory policies (loss of Surestart as a big example).

@EasternStandard not really. I’d rather know what you think of the Tory record in government. Why you cannot possible comment on that.

It's never a good idea to vote to keep a party out of power. I remember Sturgeon advocating to "lock the tories" out of Scotland and look at the mess she and her party have left. It's the same here in Wales where Labour have been in power for 20 plus years. The Senedd spends more money per head on health, education and welfare yet we have the lowest outcomes in the UK. Meanwhile they can spaff money on putting free sanitary towels in men's toilets. This is all because there is no opposition. The only way to hold governments to account is to have opposition parties that are capable of being voted in

But no one is saying Sunak is the 'saviour of all women'. This hyperbole really doesn't help.

You are right that Starmer can't please everyone. He is choosing to put the wishes of males above the needs of vulnerable women by failing to unequivocally state that he will protect single sex spaces for biological women.

I just find this depressing as the Labour Party have the power to change this but won't. As a woman who cares about the rights of vulnerable women I have a real problem with this aspect of the Labour Party and I would like the Labour Party to know that.

It doesn't seem progressive at all that the Labour Party won't change the status quo and make women's rights the forefront of their policies. I don't believe any person with a penis is a woman. I don't trust a politician who lies about things like that, whichever party they represent.

Doubtless they do.

1 in 4 voters will vote Tory (at least) so its no surprise Tory women go on these threads, anything to bash Labour.

The reality is Labour attract far more women to the party than the Tories do, both in members and MPs - so Labour are hardly likely to turn on women are they.
Do you think Jess Phillips (and her work on DV) is suddenly going to go all out and ruin our lives?

or the Eq Act

yes Kemi Badenoch is leading biological sex definition for this. First she had to override the witch hunt on Falkner. That’s how captured institutions are and how incredibly difficult pro women GC policies are to get. A single woman had to save her job first. It’s madness.

I saw a post from an activist recently pretty much laughing that Labour would be in soon and kill it. Which they have stated they will

Time is probably short I’ll push in the way I can to get it a reality before it’s too late. That’s all I can do, for dd too.

On Labour yes following closely changes to easier GRC as a start but politicians such as Osborne, Whittome, Butler, Lammy concern me, that kind of women hatred runs through (of ‘terfs’ as they call us) and you can see it in treatment of Duffield. Starmer is a ‘we don’t talk about it’ and spin, which I can’t stand. At least acknowledge the issue.

Btw I’m responding to this post as you’ve asked, don’t moan it’s about this topic

You forgot the unnamed multiple rapist MP whose victim was told "Get over it" by Conservative Chief Whip.

And I'm sure there are others.

I don't believe any person with a penis is a woman. I don't trust a politician who lies about things like that, whichever party they represent

Well, the simple fact is women can and do have surgery to give them a "penis" which can maintain an erection.

If you don't think they are still a woman, then you must also believe a man can change into a woman too.

It's similarly hyperbolic to claim Labour "will further gender ideology" on the basis of no evidence at all (and in fact, their policy is the opposite). Yet that goes mostly unchallenged and if posters do challenge it they get called all sorts on FWR (I know, I've had all sorts of ridiculous accusations thrown at me for daring to say things like Miriam Cates wants women to go back to the 50s).

One of Labour's pledges is to half violence against women, with clear steps for how they will do that. That is putting womens rights at the forefront of their policies.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/mar/23/keir-starmer-promises-to-halve-violence-against-women-as-part-of-labour-crime-mission

I don't mean plastic surgery to make something that looks like a penis. How ridiculous.

No one can change sex.

What insidious ideology this is that convinces some that they were born in the wrong body and to have radical surgeries to pretend to be something they can never be.