Voting to 'Get the Tories Out'

[DewHopper]

Pro Labour posters are all over this platform telling posters to vote for whoever gets the Tories out. It does not seem to matter who it is as long as voting for them gets the Tories out nationally.

It's a worrying voting strategy from my pov but I tend to vote at constituency level. If I had an excellent Tory MP who cared about the things I cared about and served their constituents well, I would vote for them. Similarly Labour ( I would absolutely vote for Rosie Duffield) or Independent.

Do those people who will just vote for anyone as longs as this will oust the Tories - and what could be a very good MP - ever consider the effects of this locally? They may have got the Tories out at a national level but saddled themselves with a useless MP who does nothing for the locality.

Take for example women's rights. I am a gender critical woman and care very deeply about the erosion of women's single sex spaces etc. I am sure that many of the 'Tories out at all costs' people feel the same. The pro Labour people keep telling us that Starmer will be better for women's rights BUT if you vote on a single issue - getting the Tories out - you may well elect a hopeless constituency MP who is TWAW and who will be standing up to every pro woman move that Starmer makes. I worry that there will be a lot of these in the next parliament.

So should we be voting on the single issue - get the Tories out? I don't think so - AIBU?

You are completely ignoring how bad the Tories looked (and were); plus it's bizarre to attack Labour when they're not even in power. Likewise, doing the same with one policy whilst ignoring all the others.

I’m not sure where that leaves you then because the current government lies as easily as it breathes.

There is at least still one budget to come

But they aren't forcing me to lie. They aren't going to further coerce me to lie via law and policy. They don't un-invite MPs to conferences who won't lie about a common truth. They don't say - we mustn't say such things about facts.

Who was it going on about May

Emily Thornberry got that wrong

It could easily still be May. I think it will be and November is a decoy date.

What I genuinely don't get is why people trust the Tories on this issue.

They don't. At least feminists, women's rights advocates don't. The only ones who claim to trust the Tories on this are Tories.

I hear you

I don’t want that either. There’s another thread on Welsh first minister, I think they’re worried about how gender orientated that is too

My concern is that funding will be so constrained ‘caring’ will be these cheap gender issues

It might be a general election point for me if the policies were clear; it's just not more important than other issues. This is a new area that hasn't been dealt with before. Whereas, with other major concerns there is some historical context to go on.

I'd like to think you're right, but I can see Sunak hanging on until November, especially if he thinks inflation will drop in that time.

I'm disappointed in their inertia when it mattered. Aren't you? If you support Labour you must feel they left the building during covid and handed the Tories a free hand?

I'm not saying the Tories were competent. I'm voting on this particular issue - I don't have any choice - apart from Reform. I'm asking how someone could come to the decision that Labour would be competent and worth giving up women's sex based rights and language for?

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24032417.turnip-talibans-james-bagge-stand-liz-truss/

Exactly. Individual MPs, no matter how hard working, can’t really override the power of central government and party leadership decisions.

You made clear in your OP that your weren't a fan. Then you ignored the posts on this thread discussing that point, preferring to talk about toilets.

Tactical voting improves the quality of candidate fielded. No more donkeys in the right coloured Rosette. No more safe seats. No more party stooges parachuted in on a promise. No more votes taken for granted.

Not only would it sort your dismal Tory MP problem. It would sort the country's current fucked up Tory Government problem.

No other party will follow the GE with another🙄 Leadership race. The chaotic, shambolic Tories will. How long do you think Sunak will be party leader @Desecratedcoconut?

We need stability. A vote for the Tory Party is a vote for more chaos, incompetence and corruption.

Perhaps Labour could have done better when it mattered but I don't really know how much difference shouting in the house of commons really makes?

I really suffered during the pandemic and I lay all the blame at the feet of the Tories. I belong to the Labour party.

I guess we all vote on the issues that are most important to us. I feel that the wording of the issue "how someone could come to the decision that Labour would be competent and worth giving up women's sex based right and language for" is a misrepresentation of the issue.

Voting Labour does not mean giving up women's sex based rights; it's a strawman. There are many examples, given in this thread by myself and others, of how Labour have shown competency in the past and how the Tories show incompetence in the present. So my question would be: how could someone come to the decision that the Conservative party would be competent at delivering women's rights (based on their history of lies, especially), and worth giving up support for the sick, disabled, homeless and impoverished?

It's the same logic in reverse, based on what we value more.

The real argument we're having (is it not?): What is more important; women's sex based rights, or support for the impoverished and disadvantaged.

Yet the impoverished and disadvantaged appear to fare even worse in Wales ... under a Labour administration.

I fear the fact they have a Labour Administration may have been to their detriment given the Tories are the government of the whole UK and are known to punish Administrations that aren't Tory.

When they've fucked the economy so badly Tory constituencies are suffering, you can be sure they don't give a fuck about the Devolved nations.

And yet the Welsh have voted for them.

@jgw1

"Is it possible the stream of scandals that occurred under the previous Prime Minister, none of which were apparently serious enough for Sunak do to anything about, and the larger number since Sunak has been PM are an indication of how the government is being run?"

++++

Look there was no shortage of political scandals under the last Labour Government either:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ListoffpoliticalscandalssintheeUnitedKingdom

I don't it is healthy for one party to be in power for anymore than the current 13 years but I am under no illusions that things will be that different under Labour.

@BIossomtoes

"And they don’t know because Sunak’s currently talking about an election on 15 November and we all know that nine months in the current political climate is like a decade. All manner of things could happen in that time."

+++

Well for a start there will be a tax giveaway budget in an attempt to bribe voters into backing the Tories.

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html has a handy postcode checker showing what they expect to happen in each constituency given current polling.

And yet when some of us tried to have a practical discussion of the implications of strictly single sex toilets, a whole barrage of insults arrived. Its almost as if it is just a soundbite.

An excellent suggestion, lets have that debate.

I am delighted to hear that you like me are fed up with the Tories lies, and will not be voting for more of the same. How Sunak could sit next to his then boss while he and everyone else knew that boss was lying to parliament about their joint lawbreaking is beyond me.