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Voting to 'Get the Tories Out'

1000 replies

DewHopper · 06/01/2024 09:55

Pro Labour posters are all over this platform telling posters to vote for whoever gets the Tories out. It does not seem to matter who it is as long as voting for them gets the Tories out nationally.

It's a worrying voting strategy from my pov but I tend to vote at constituency level. If I had an excellent Tory MP who cared about the things I cared about and served their constituents well, I would vote for them. Similarly Labour ( I would absolutely vote for Rosie Duffield) or Independent.

Do those people who will just vote for anyone as longs as this will oust the Tories - and what could be a very good MP - ever consider the effects of this locally? They may have got the Tories out at a national level but saddled themselves with a useless MP who does nothing for the locality.

Take for example women's rights. I am a gender critical woman and care very deeply about the erosion of women's single sex spaces etc. I am sure that many of the 'Tories out at all costs' people feel the same. The pro Labour people keep telling us that Starmer will be better for women's rights BUT if you vote on a single issue - getting the Tories out - you may well elect a hopeless constituency MP who is TWAW and who will be standing up to every pro woman move that Starmer makes. I worry that there will be a lot of these in the next parliament.

So should we be voting on the single issue - get the Tories out? I don't think so - AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
TooBigForMyBoots · 06/01/2024 22:50

DewHopper · 06/01/2024 19:36

Yes the thread has gone a way I did not envisage but it seems that if you mention women's rights here there is a weird pile on from the same posters.

TBF OP, it is you who has been most focused on toilets. Not so much on discussion about tactical voting and how it can benefit both you, the country and the quality of candidates.🤷‍♀️

Desecratedcoconut · 06/01/2024 22:52

BIossomtoes · 06/01/2024 22:46

Firstly, they were utterly incompetence during COVID, sitting on their hands like nodding dogs.

I realise this may come as a terrible shock to you but they weren’t in power in 2020. Their competence wasn’t in question because all they could do was watch from the sidelines. Of course if Johnson had done the sensible thing and formed a national government like his hero Churchill things might have been very different.

I know this might come as a terrible shock to you but the opposition is suppose to oppose. Not sit around doing fuck all waiting for the wind to change.

BIossomtoes · 06/01/2024 22:56

How can the opposition oppose in the midst of a national crisis without looking like total arseholes? Particularly when they don’t have access to the same information as the government?

DewHopper · 06/01/2024 22:57

yytee · 06/01/2024 22:42

Why can't labour just work on convincing people to vote for them? Why do we need to vote tactically?

Is an excellent question.

OP posts:
Desecratedcoconut · 06/01/2024 22:57

Oh well, better not do their jobs in case it makes them look bad.

Firefly2009 · 06/01/2024 22:58

Desecratedcoconut · 06/01/2024 22:52

I know this might come as a terrible shock to you but the opposition is suppose to oppose. Not sit around doing fuck all waiting for the wind to change.

Edited

You are not addressing any of the very valid criticisms about why voting Tory is not a good idea. And on top of that, you're blaming Labour for their failures! This really is a detraction.

LyndaLaHughes · 06/01/2024 22:58

The fact is that local MPs can be as brilliant as they like, but it is national policy that dictates much that is shit about this country now and has the most actual impact on people's lives. Education, health, policing, the economy, support for the vulnerable etc- all utterly decimated under the Tories. The corruption, lies and self-service is not even hidden anymore. They are utterly despicable and I despair of how anyone can defend them or not see them for what they are and whose interests they serve.

DewHopper · 06/01/2024 22:58

TooBigForMyBoots · 06/01/2024 22:50

TBF OP, it is you who has been most focused on toilets. Not so much on discussion about tactical voting and how it can benefit both you, the country and the quality of candidates.🤷‍♀️

That's really not true at all. And I am not a fan of tactical voting as I think I made clear in my opening post.

OP posts:
Jamesclaton007 · 06/01/2024 23:00

the phenomenon of tactical voting is deeply rooted in strategic considerations, particularly when voters are faced with choices that go beyond mere expressions of personal preferences. Let's delve deeper into the reasons behind tactical voting and the dynamics that influence this strategic approach:

Preventing the Lesser Evil: In some cases, voters may find themselves in a situation where none of the candidates or parties align perfectly with their values or policy preferences. Tactical voting then becomes a way to prevent the election of a candidate or party deemed as the "lesser evil" or one that strongly opposes the voter's core beliefs. By strategically supporting a more viable alternative, voters aim to influence the outcome in a way that is more acceptable to them.

Strategic Use of Votes: Tactical voting involves a strategic use of one's vote to maximize its impact on the overall election results. Voters may recognize that their preferred candidate has a lower chance of winning and decide to support a more competitive option to ensure that their vote contributes to a meaningful outcome. This strategic thinking reflects an understanding of the electoral system and its nuances.

Impact of Margins: The awareness that elections can be decided by slim margins reinforces the rationale for tactical voting. In systems where a candidate can win with a relatively small percentage of the total votes, voters recognize the potential significance of their individual choices. This realization prompts them to consider not only their first-choice candidate but also the broader implications of the election outcome.

Vote Splitting and Spoiler Effect: Tactical voting aims to address the challenge of vote splitting, where similar candidates or parties compete for the same voter base. When supporters of a particular perspective are divided among multiple options, it can weaken the overall strength of that position. Tactical voting is a strategic response to avoid the "spoiler effect" and concentrate support behind the most viable candidate or party.

Strategic Campaigning Impact: The strategic considerations of voters are often influenced by the way political campaigns are conducted. Campaign messages, media coverage, and polling data can shape perceptions of a candidate's viability. Voters may adjust their choices strategically based on these factors to ensure that their vote contributes to the overall goal of preventing an unfavorable outcome.

Long-Term Policy Goals: Tactical voting is not only about immediate preferences but can also be driven by a consideration of long-term policy goals. Voters may prioritize preventing certain policy directions or ensuring the pursuit of specific objectives over the immediate alignment with a preferred candidate. This forward-looking approach contributes to the strategic nature of tactical voting.

In essence, tactical voting is a pragmatic response to the complexities of electoral systems and the strategic considerations involved in achieving desired outcomes. It reflects a nuanced understanding of the political landscape and a willingness to navigate the system strategically to influence the direction of governance. While it may involve compromise on immediate preferences, it is driven by a broader vision of shaping the political landscape in a way that aligns more closely with the voter's values and goals.

DewHopper · 06/01/2024 23:02

chatGPT? Can't you just post your own thoughts?

OP posts:
Piggywaspushed · 06/01/2024 23:03

Ermm,OK AI!

ilovesooty · 06/01/2024 23:04

yytee · 06/01/2024 22:42

Why can't labour just work on convincing people to vote for them? Why do we need to vote tactically?

Because in some seats it increases the possibility of getting the sitting Tory out.

BIossomtoes · 06/01/2024 23:04

DewHopper · 06/01/2024 23:02

chatGPT? Can't you just post your own thoughts?

Edited

You read my mind! 😂

TooBigForMyBoots · 06/01/2024 23:04

Firefly2009 · 06/01/2024 20:31

I haven't read the entire thread. For those of us that haven't scrolled through 23 pages of arguments about women's rights and the like and who is offending whom here; is it actually the case that the Tories are offering more in terms of women's rights, protection for women, single sex spaces, and anything else talked about? (Genuine question - I don't know).

Is it the case that people will vote Tory based on the fact that Labour are not up to scratch? Even if that's still the case, surely there's not a massive difference in it, and we just need a change of government after the shit-show of the past few years?

Am I the only one who thinks most politicians are not that great so you just pick the lesser of two evils? Surely it is worth it to get the Tories out? I'm not saying this other stuff isn't important, just to pick your battles. The country is going to the dogs. I think we should save the sinking ship rather than figure out the intricacies of how to sail it.

Politicians are shit. The Tories are the worst - overall. If I vote Tory because the local Tory MP is better than the Labour one, the ship still goes down when the Tories win. I'm in the camp of what is best for the country overall, is more important than my local issues. But that's just me.

You ate not the only one.Thanks

Desecratedcoconut · 06/01/2024 23:05

Firefly2009 · 06/01/2024 22:58

You are not addressing any of the very valid criticisms about why voting Tory is not a good idea. And on top of that, you're blaming Labour for their failures! This really is a detraction.

I answered the question asked.

I don't see how Labour will do anything much different to what the Tories are doing. It'll be the same shit with a gender bullshit side salad served up to demonstrate some differentiation and harming women and girls, free speech and democratic values along the way.

I don't like the Tories but I'm a big fan of not living a theocracy of any ilk.

BIossomtoes · 06/01/2024 23:07

Blimey, I didn’t realise anyone on either side was purporting to represent God.

Desecratedcoconut · 06/01/2024 23:08

And yet you must take on faith that someone can change their sex though magical thinking and if you say that is a lie you are a modern day blasphemer...just ask Duffield.

DewHopper · 06/01/2024 23:09

BIossomtoes · 06/01/2024 23:07

Blimey, I didn’t realise anyone on either side was purporting to represent God.

😂

OP posts:
DewHopper · 06/01/2024 23:11

Desecratedcoconut · 06/01/2024 23:08

And yet you must take on faith that someone can change their sex though magical thinking and if you say that is a lie you are a modern day blasphemer...just ask Duffield.

Edited

Very good point! But the above post did give me a laugh too. 😁

OP posts:
Firefly2009 · 06/01/2024 23:14

Desecratedcoconut · 06/01/2024 23:05

I answered the question asked.

I don't see how Labour will do anything much different to what the Tories are doing. It'll be the same shit with a gender bullshit side salad served up to demonstrate some differentiation and harming women and girls, free speech and democratic values along the way.

I don't like the Tories but I'm a big fan of not living a theocracy of any ilk.

But it's simply not true that Labour stand for the same things the Tories do and you've glossed over that as if it's a minor detail.

Your position is: They are as bad as each other, but at least the Tories are not pushing gender policies.

If you can say that Labour won't do anything differently to the Tories in most areas, then you can't say with any more certainty that they will do better in another.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 06/01/2024 23:17

The reality is that because we have FPTP most people end up voting for the person / party that they dislike the least. It will never change.

Desecratedcoconut · 06/01/2024 23:17

I don't give a shit about what either of them stand for. I want to know what they are going to do different to one another, given the same economic constraints.

BIossomtoes · 06/01/2024 23:20

Desecratedcoconut · 06/01/2024 23:17

I don't give a shit about what either of them stand for. I want to know what they are going to do different to one another, given the same economic constraints.

And they don’t know because Sunak’s currently talking about an election on 15 November and we all know that nine months in the current political climate is like a decade. All manner of things could happen in that time.

Firefly2009 · 06/01/2024 23:21

Desecratedcoconut · 06/01/2024 23:08

And yet you must take on faith that someone can change their sex though magical thinking and if you say that is a lie you are a modern day blasphemer...just ask Duffield.

Edited

No one has called Duffield a blasphemer that I've seen, but I get your point.
Just because there are people in the world who take this position, it doesn't mean it will necessarily end or continue with either political party. It isn't a general election point, especially as this debate is going to continue long past any election, or new or old government.

And I agree that this is concerning. However, there are also many other social issues as well that are equally concerning.

Desecratedcoconut · 06/01/2024 23:22

It isn't a general election point for you. You do what you like. But I won't be voting for a government that thinks the truth is problematic.

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