Voting to 'Get the Tories Out'

[DewHopper]

Pro Labour posters are all over this platform telling posters to vote for whoever gets the Tories out. It does not seem to matter who it is as long as voting for them gets the Tories out nationally.

It's a worrying voting strategy from my pov but I tend to vote at constituency level. If I had an excellent Tory MP who cared about the things I cared about and served their constituents well, I would vote for them. Similarly Labour ( I would absolutely vote for Rosie Duffield) or Independent.

Do those people who will just vote for anyone as longs as this will oust the Tories - and what could be a very good MP - ever consider the effects of this locally? They may have got the Tories out at a national level but saddled themselves with a useless MP who does nothing for the locality.

Take for example women's rights. I am a gender critical woman and care very deeply about the erosion of women's single sex spaces etc. I am sure that many of the 'Tories out at all costs' people feel the same. The pro Labour people keep telling us that Starmer will be better for women's rights BUT if you vote on a single issue - getting the Tories out - you may well elect a hopeless constituency MP who is TWAW and who will be standing up to every pro woman move that Starmer makes. I worry that there will be a lot of these in the next parliament.

So should we be voting on the single issue - get the Tories out? I don't think so - AIBU?

I think voting for Labour is bad, specifically for women. I can tell you the reasons why I think voting for Labour is bad. But you can do whatever you please. I don't think you are a better or worse person than I am for voting differently. I won't be telling you that you are a bad person for not favouring my own voting priorities. Women have a right to vote - and I'm not so arrogant as to tell you what to do. It's not the same.

You said to me you were sorry you mentioned women's rights, but now seem to be only talking about toilets.

Your question about tactical voting was actually interesting.

Women's rights are interesting to me but threads like this are so repetitive. I understand your worries but attacking other women just seems pointless.

You clearly won’t be happy unless everyone posts for Labour

You’ll probably still get in so don’t worry. You use your vote and let others decide with their’s. You don’t get to dictate

You vote as you want and I’ll do the same

And you have plenty of Labour echo chambers on mn anyway

And you hijack every single one of them. Without fail.

Can you seriously look at the country after 15 years of Tory rule and think it could have been worse under anyone else? The Tories have been appalling for women and families. If you actually care about women, you'll want the Tories out. If you actually just want to see trans women excluded, regardless of the outcomes for everyone else, then I guess vote for them.

I certainly don't dismiss her but she is a Labour die hard like some other notable left wing feminists. I sometimes wonder if this makes her a little blinkered?
It is quite amazing that she was denied membership as a proper Lefty and it shows how bad things got for women in the party. I hope that she is right that things are getting better.

Can’t you set up a thread to your preference? I mean mn doesn’t have a limit.

Sorry, are there universities doing this?

I wasn't talking about prisons, I was asking about universities.

Thanks for any info, I'd genuinely be happy to read it.

I think on sex based rights they’ll be much the same as the Tories.
I think on every other issue that affects women they’ll be infinitely better.
I think the Tories have all but destroyed everything that was ever good about Britain - joyfully and deliberately because it enriched them and their mates - and I don’t think they should be given a chance to finish the job.
I think anyone who thinks any one issue is more important than the state of the nation is incomprehensible.
I think you’re using this as a way to ‘legitimise’ your support of Tories, because I can’t see how anyone could be so blind to reality otherwise.
Ok?

Your answer tells me everything I need to know about you. I shall not engage with you further.

No chance. You have those long running threads that are probably all Labour voters, I hide them and others similar

It’s all the same tedious stuff

But tough you don’t own the site to police it. You sought this thread out and complain

Your issue not mine

Yes the thread has gone a way I did not envisage but it seems that if you mention women's rights here there is a weird pile on from the same posters.

If I were to accept what you say, it would still leave the question: why aren't Labour better than the Tories on this issue? If Labour can see that lots of women feel very strongly about this, why don't they up their game? Why aren't they appealing to women out of pure self-interest in acquiring votes? Why aren't they doing the right thing simply because it's the right thing to do?

Yep, i get its an important issue but so is child poverty, 8m on waiting lists, RAAC in schools, child poverty, violence against women, Student debt etc etc.

As pp said, this thread could have been an interesting discussion on tactical voting, instead it descends into yet another Gender merry go round.

As for starting a new political non gender based thread, unfortunately it would become yet another stuck record Gender Labour bashing thread.

Then you aren’t paying attention.
Tories are horrific on NHS, education, social care, benefits, lone parents, childcare…I could go on.
All issues that affect women. How on earth can you ignore that?

Well you’re wrong 🤷‍♂️

This matters to me a lot. I don’t care if it doesn’t to you but I am incredibly grateful to the women who do speak up, often to personal cost

And attracting insults from you and posters such as @blossomtoes is irritating but there you go some can’t help say stop speaking up and attacking anything not Labour

How can universities prevent it legally when men can get a certificate that makes them legally women?

I don't know if it has happened. But it could.

Why should any girl ever be forced into a scenario like that?

Lots of things never will happen until they do. If this does happen then don't say you haven't been warned it could happen. No woman could be raped on a single sex NHS ward right?

I haven’t insulted you @EasternStandard.

I think you've just proven my point.

Yep you have

You don’t get to police the site and moan on this thread

Start another 🤷‍♂️

As I’ve said to you before, I’ve never told anyone to vote for Labour. I’ve suggested tactical voting against Tories, who I feel are destroying the country.
I’m not ‘dictating’ anything. How could I? Are you so delicate and insecure that someone giving some advice, maybe passionately, means you can no longer do what you choose?

Why do you all crowd around on what you don’t want to talk about

It’s madness

Because this thread was supposed to be about tactical voting. And I haven’t insulted you. And wouldn’t. I’m better than that.

What would make me happy is to be able to have a debate on political subjects without insults, whataboutery and other deflections.