Anyone actually excited about a Keir / Labour govt?

[roarrfeckingroar]

I'm typically a Tory voter (one nation Conservative, just right of centre, nothing radical) and gender critical, so I'm wary of a Labour government. I worry they'll leave the country worse than it is now.

However, I absolutely agree we need a change. Things can't get much worse, can they? Idiots like Boris and Truss have made a mockery of what I understand of the Conservatives - namely economic competence - and I can't vote for them this time. I don't know who I will vote for.

Listening to LBC this evening, I hear a Labour MP talk about how Starmer is offering an "exciting programme" of change and I just don't buy it. Maybe he will he better, maybe he won't, but my real question is is anyone genuinely excited about Labour, or just looking forward to the back of the Tories?

When the Cheif Whip of the Tory Party tells the female victim of a multiple rapist within that party to "Get over it" and known sex abusers are protected and promoted within the party, then it is a Party Culture Issue.

It is hardly any wonder that over the past 14 years rape has been practically decriminalised in the UK and rapists are being locked up with women who can't get away. The Rape Culture in the party has had a huge impact on women in the country. They cut our resources and sold our rights to Stonewall.

The Tories are dangerous to women and children. Just look at their record, 14 years in government.

Labour have already dropped 3pts down the polls, neither you nor i know who will win as the next GE is potentially 12 months away.

If this matters to you (as by the way it does to me) then ask questions of both parties & atm both parties have pretty much identical policies, ie the GRA stays as it is.

fwiw i don't expect them to fix much at all, to start to turn things around, we need a competent & fairer Govt.

For me, the Tories don't offer that, thats an opinion based on their last 13 years in office.

alltootired - What Starmer said was 99.9% of women don't have a penis, therefore he thinks that 0.1% of women do.

Why do you think he didn't say it was 100%?
I know that women don't have a penis why doesn't he know that?

You might want to check your reading comprehension / logic skills, as nowhere have I stated there is any causation.

I have pointed out that the top 4 countries in the world for women's parity with men, as measured through the internationally respected Global Gender Gap Report, also have policies of gender self-ID.

I am making no causative argument over this. I am saying the top 4 countries in the world for women were happy to proceed with these policies, and have maintained their positions at the top of the table for women despite implementing these.

They have great track records of policies for women, and their populations in general - why do you think they have suddenly all got it drastically wrong, given their far superior performances for women, especially compared to the UK?

Given they remain at the top of the tables for women, what is your evidence about the social harm caused to women in these countries?

Maybe he was referring to Transmen with prosthetics.

She says I want to have enough money to not worry about bills. That is more of an immediate impact for most people. and you respond with that? Seriously?

I suggest you study some of the research on the education, employment, health and wellbeing, economic and social status attainments of trans people as a demographic.

You clearly don't understand the correlation and causation argument, because you have repeated yourself and made the exact same attempt at proving correlation is causation. That these countries have the gender policies they do is completely and utterly irrelevant to the welbeing of women. It is in spite of, not because of. You are trying to link the two. It's a false equivalency.

I have. And there is zero evidence transwomen or any other men are less well off than women. And you know it.

Ha yes I’m sure that’s what Starmer meant

Blossomtoes - If Starmer is that deluded that he actually believes that some women do have a penis and he cannot bring himself to say that 100% of women don't have a penis then I think that is very worrying. Or maybe you agree with him.

Ok, I think we have reached the limit of your comprehension skills quite quickly, so probably best to leave it there.

You’re right

I presume Dr NO is trans?

Yes I knew when you were called out on your correlation = causation false equivalency you'd tried to walk it back, pretend you didn't say it, then run away. Everyone on here can read your previous posts, btw. It was more than obvious to anyone with basic reasoning and critical thinking skills to see what you were doing. You just hoped you wouldn't be called out.

I don't disagree with the essence of your argument. Labour should be held accountable for women's rights as much as any other governments. I have 4 daughters and the issue of female only spaces is something I'm very unhappy about. It is sad that Magdalen Berns passed away because she advocated vocally on this point. in the middle of the current Tory premiership!

There are people on this thread trying to argue that we still need to keep on voting in the Tory clowns because they care about women. It's utter disingenuous shit. At least be honest about why you vote Tory (because you don't want a level playing field if it means that you lose any of your luxuries) instead of hiding behind this grasping at straws whattabouttery. Because it's patently obvious what it is.

And therefore vote Tory.

What I want is a Tory government, so that I can continue to know my place and doff my cap to my superiors.

Well, like it or not, plenty of trans men do under go penile surgery.

So Starmer is technically correct, though his 0.1 % was a bit out.

But tbh its completely missing the boat, women's rights are being removed be it in the work place, sport, in public services and both parties need to be held accountable not just one party, a party that hasn't been in power for almost 14 years.

I really don't get why people only pull up Labour but, and i ve read the posts by the main GC posters, no criticism of the Tories, so can only assume they have political motives and aren't really bothered about womens rights at all.

So you care about female only spaces and you’re excited about Starmer / Labour?

Is it because you think he’ll deliver that?

I have no idea why you tell such lies.

It doesn't add anything to the thread.

The Labour Party, as the opposition, should be able to right the wrongs of the last 13 years to women. That they won't doesn't make me either a Tory voter, I am not, or rich, I am not.

If we can't hold the opposition to account on important issues in the run up to a General Election then when can we? It is undemocratic for you to attempt to silence those of us who care about women's right's and want the Labour Party to do better by claiming things that are untrue.

Because as another poster helpfully explained earlier in the thread the law says as much.

I care about a lot of things. I have watched all these years of the current government clowns destroy everything good about the UK. I want them out. I'm much more pissed off about Brexit because that will impact my children much more than the trans issue in real time.

Don't be daft, we don't want facts in the discussion, that would destroy my cosy illusions.

I presume Dr NO is trans?

Properly laughing!

So, 29 pages in all we seem to have is keir cervix starmer and his transmageddon, purely based on speculation about what might or might not happen even though labour haven’t been in power for a long long time. I see.

Also his policies A: haven’t been clear … and…B are obviously clear

WTAF. Is that all govt supporters have?

It’s no wonder that the Tories are looking at a historic defeat, and it’s imo long long overdue.

The conservatives need to work out if they’re actually going to conserve anything, rather than smash it up, and also work out if the union is important- it was originally in their name after all and it’s looking more fragile than ever.

Tories have always been two parties within a party fighting it out like rats in a sack. And here we are, nothing has been achieved in 14 years. For the good of the country they need to go.