Anyone actually excited about a Keir / Labour govt?

[roarrfeckingroar]

I'm typically a Tory voter (one nation Conservative, just right of centre, nothing radical) and gender critical, so I'm wary of a Labour government. I worry they'll leave the country worse than it is now.

However, I absolutely agree we need a change. Things can't get much worse, can they? Idiots like Boris and Truss have made a mockery of what I understand of the Conservatives - namely economic competence - and I can't vote for them this time. I don't know who I will vote for.

Listening to LBC this evening, I hear a Labour MP talk about how Starmer is offering an "exciting programme" of change and I just don't buy it. Maybe he will he better, maybe he won't, but my real question is is anyone genuinely excited about Labour, or just looking forward to the back of the Tories?

Or maybe they get sick of some of the hatred expressed towards trans people and the hero worship of Kellie Jay Keen.

Public service staff also had their wages frozen for years.

Blimey. There’s more to FWR than KJK

And it’s pro women as much as some try to paint it as hatred

But I’m sure some are pro gender ideology regardless in which case Labour is a good fit

Me too. I have children born under the Labour government and children born under the current lot and there is an unbelievable difference. I have no idea how anyone can say they're all the same.

Two of my children had the trust funds and the older one has used that money to help her through uni.

We have made some progress with the Tories.

Women have made no progress under the Tories.
Who introduced Self ID?
Tory PM Theresa May.
Who locked up vulnerable women with the rapist Karen White (and others) who sexually assaulted them?
The Tories.
Who's headed Education where our children have been exposed to all sorts of genderwoo and validation of transing children?
The Tories who have repeatedly given Education to TWAW believers. The current Secretary of State for Education, Gillian Keegan, doesn't know the definition of "girl".
Who paid Stonewall to indoctrinate our institutions?
The Tories. The head of Stonewall was a generous donor to the party.
Who wrote genderwoo into a Maternity Bill?
The Tories.
Who reported members of the public to the police and their employers for retweeting JKR?
Tory MPs.
Who introduced Austerity that disproportionately impacted women and health, Education provision?
The Tories.
Who have practically decriminalised rape in the UK?
The Tories. A party with a terrifying rape culture.
Who gave the plight of abused women less priority than sporting fixtures in their Covid planning?
The Tories
Who refused to make misogyny a Hate Crime?
The Tories.
Who has been in power for the past 14 years diminishing women's circumstances, our ability to have safety and justice and ceded our rights to TRAs?
The Tories.

They have been destroying women since they came to power.

Who refused to make misogyny a Hate Crime?

I’d rather get males out of the definition of women before they come after us for posting he instead of she

Labour might clamp down on that freedom but it won’t be good. It’ll be utterly shite

@TooBigForMyBoots well said.

@caringcarer I think you are over thinking this. Starmer and team will be very aware of all the points you raised- I certainly don't think immigration will be higher , to be frank the level the Tory's have allowed to fill Post Brexit workforce issues is preposterous . Brexit cost £400 billion and if one of the aims was to lower reliance on EU workers, they have simply stuffed it with people from outside the EU , mainly Southern Asia, Phillipines, Africa etc - all exceptionally pointless. These families ( and its families not single people) don't live in shared houses, and need medical and education facilities. It's not young single people.
non doms? Well the point of being non dom is to pay as little tax as possible , so I don't think losing some is going to result in mass tax losses , housing- I predict there will be a big expansion of social housing and shared ownerships etc of all kinds and to be frank that's no bad thing- I think you are looking at things as the Tory's would like you to think - but the likelihood is for the average person some things would improve as my view is the Tory's have very odd priorities. For instance at the moment inheritance tax affects 4% of the population.using 8bn to bribe certain voters is in my opinion a poor use of public funds at a time like this.

I still think things will be tough regardless of who is in power- but if Labour are I think the underlying intention is different, it is actually to better things, not just fleece the country and constantly campaign - never govern -

I know everyone has different views but I think the Tory's have created a really bad vibe in the country - they have allowed resentment to seep in and make it look as if all ills are all due to immigration or benefit claimants or 'stop the boats' kind of stuff - whilst the reality is that the lack of money around is due to many poor decisions they chose to go with such asa hard Brexit (£400 billion) vast amounts of money on HS2, dodgy stuff in covid, student loans etc (requiring vast amounts of up front money all the time) . Lots of these were done for political purpose and votes - not because they ever made financial sense.

And for those of you obsessed with transgender politics-can we possibly look at a wider picture - it actually is extremely short sighted to think that's all most women will vote based on

I'm the same. One born under Labour, another under the Tories and the difference is stark. They have done so much damage to this generation through their policies.

They really don't give a shit about our children.

Women’s sex based rights

If you’re going to dismiss and throw those rights under the bus you may as well use the right term

Govs don’t cut funding for fun - because obviously the public won’t like it and will vote them out.
Labour left the coffers empty -so things might have been better under them but they blew the money. Then there was the global financial crash, hugely affecting the uk, Brexit (yes the Tories fault) , then Covid.
I understand Starmer is going to borrow millions to fund stuff -not always a great idea.

Even single issue voters shouldn't give their vote to the Tories who brought the trans shitshow on our heads.

The only parties who've had a clear, consistent stance that TWANW, are the SDP and Reform UK.

Well said. For all its faults, the Blair/Brown administration made serious inroads into child poverty - it was a key priority, they invested heavily and it worked. It has all been ripped up now, but we must not forget that we can have a better government that does improve the lives of some of the most vulnerable in our society.

I am not saying I trust Starmer to deliver this, but I don't think a Labour government will cause as much damage as that inflicted by the Tories, who don't even pretend to care about poor children

Posters talk about this being a rich woman's issue but it's disadvantaged women who are more likely to be affected by the removal of women's rights. It's poor women who are more likely to be caught up needing to use hostels or shelters or in the prison system @lifeturnsonadime

or how about we look at this a different way - why are women having to live in hostels or caught up in the prison system in the first place? Let's address these problems first. Surely, if you care about women's rights, you'd make this a priority?

Let’s get the chronology right, shall we? There was a global financial crash which meant the Labour government bailed out the banks with borrowed money - thus saving the economy from ruin. The Tory government’s austerity was an ideological choice or - to use your term - for fun. Starmer has pledged not to borrow for day to day expenditure. Meanwhile, look at borrowing levels under the Tories.

So where will he get the money from then...for example his big environment agenda..the money ill come from raising our energy prices like the standing charges to pay for it.

Or raising our taxes.

He might not be borrowing money but it still has to come from somewhere.

How much are you willing to hand over in taxes or additional everyday spending increase rate pay for all his ideas......

The money will come from redistribution of existing Treasury income. No Rwanda stunt or pouring money in to the bank accounts of the likes of Lady Mone for a start. I’d be more than happy to pay an extra few % in tax but Reeves has already ruled that out.

Govs don’t cut funding for fun - because obviously the public won’t like it and will vote them out.
Labour left the coffers empty -so things might have been better under them but they blew the money.

Sorry but you believe this utter nonsense?

Remember how the House of Lords initially voted down their coalition proposals to cut Tax Credits? They did that because the Tories were proposing for it to happen alongside massive tax cuts for the rich.

Do not be under the illusion that this government's austerity program was anything other than ideological and their brand of politics. Like I said, Thatcherism on steroids.

I obviously can't blame this government for the pandemic. But I can blame them for allowing a referendum on leaving the EU which has left the UK in a pitiful mess that our children will have to sort out.

Lol, sure

The money will come from (just like last time) PFIs which we are still paying for, but the buildings built with PFI are now old and often no longer fit for purpose.

Oh dear. So it's a comprehension issue.

And I'm not sure informed means what you think it does. Some of us like to look further than FWR. I agree with so much on there but not the random anti labour stuff. Especially not when, as pp have explained in words of one syllable, the Tory party have screwed women over for years now.

Surely you must be able to understand that women need more than just the single spaces? They need so much more to make life better than it is now for so many women.

Go on, try and think a bit wider.

One can see how much people change their minds by comparing the number of seats each party got in 2019 and the projections for 2024.

eg

https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html

Why do we need a legislature that includes Michelle Mone and a Russian who bought his way in making our laws?

I thought one of the reasons for Brexit was to take back control of our law making?

@suggestionsplease1 Correlation does not equal causation. You are making a false equivalence argument, and you know it. And to be honest it is quite pitiful. To suggest that having men in battered womens shelters and rape shelters and womens sacred safe single sex spaces equals increased economic growth, health and welfare for women is pitiful.