Anyone actually excited about a Keir / Labour govt?

[roarrfeckingroar]

I'm typically a Tory voter (one nation Conservative, just right of centre, nothing radical) and gender critical, so I'm wary of a Labour government. I worry they'll leave the country worse than it is now.

However, I absolutely agree we need a change. Things can't get much worse, can they? Idiots like Boris and Truss have made a mockery of what I understand of the Conservatives - namely economic competence - and I can't vote for them this time. I don't know who I will vote for.

Listening to LBC this evening, I hear a Labour MP talk about how Starmer is offering an "exciting programme" of change and I just don't buy it. Maybe he will he better, maybe he won't, but my real question is is anyone genuinely excited about Labour, or just looking forward to the back of the Tories?

Way to miss / prove the point!

I want to know why Labour aren’t backing women’s rights ?

in the run up to a general election there are a number of issues that are important to me.

I want to positively vote for the Labour Party as I have done previously.

I want to know why Labour thinks that men’s wishes are more important than women’s single sex spaces and sports.

Its undemocratic for you and other posters to try to silence these questions with ‘but the tories’ !

I haven’t missed the point @lifeturnsonadime. Why are you demanding more of one party than another? That’s the reverse of undemocratic.

They are in the process, according to the other thread it means tearing up the good Friday agreement and leaving human rights in the dust.

I happen to not believe that. But we shall see. I'm expecting it to be used as an issue when the general election date is made.

Here look, we will change up or repeal the GRA
V
I do believe quite a lot of women have a penis, we must all shove, up, shove our reservations down and make room.

And the wonderful stanniland question of is it ok to you if a grown man showers next to my teen daughter?

Is there a mechanism that we could use to get rid of superfluous MPs?

I’m not!

im asking Labour what THEY will do.

if they want my vote I need to understand their position and why they put men first.

you are suggesting that because the Tories are similar women should not put these questions to Labour. That’s absurd .

It is not possible for a sane and thoughtful person to agree with everything that each party puts in their manifesto - that is the nature of party politics.

So, we have to set some priorities - which might be voting for the party that has the most policies you agree with and biting the bullet on the other bits.

For me it is about getting this dishonest shower gone - I will vote for whoever is most likely to achieve that in my constituency.

Oooh wicked burn......

Oh no maybe not. Possibly is just your lack of critical thinking. That thinking that women don't want to share rape counselling, sports, prisons, hospital wards, etc with men of any identity are stupid? It seems to be what your saying.

I've learnt over the years, that ultimately you'll never be able to change people's minds on their political leanings, despite presenting infallible evidence that contradicts their steadfast beliefs. Some people will flip - flop or organically change side when their own circumstances dictate, but trying to convince the other person that they're incorrect is a futile exercise. A friend in particular drives me nuts on this issue - to him Labour is a disgrace, doesn't represent the working classes any more and preferred Johnson for his " wit" and " high jinx". Mentally, I'm thinking but what have the Tories ever done for you - the charity sector in which he works has lost the majority of its funding whereas it thrived under Labour leadership, he could afford to buy his own property under Labour but wouldn't stand a chance today, he received a fully funded undergraduate degree under Labour nowadays it would be a pipe dream, his parents were supported with social housing when his dad was made redundant now they'd be in the streets of in a b& b if lucky... Very hard to bite my tongue when he asserts his notion that Labour are shysters and well, the Tories are fab for " trying to stop the boats ". The less said about that the better.

Starmer was stating what the law says. I also know what the law says. I think we are all in agreement as to what the law says. Sunak and Starmer as far as I can tell are also in agreement that the law does not need to change.

Additionally the Tories have had 13 years when they could have changed the law, and could still do so in this parliament.

The question surely is why Sunak isn't doing that?

Why does it demonstrate a lack of critical thinking not to want to engage with the FWR forum?

And I will vote for whoever has the sanest view on women's rights. If Labour truly cared about the country & wanted to be in power, they could change their policies to support those rights, & be guaranteed a victory. If they're not willing to do so, then it seems to me that they put trashing women's rights above the interests of the country.

It's not the electorate's fault if they look at Labour & think, 'No way'. It's Labour's fault.

I've learnt over the years, that ultimately you'll never be able to change people's minds on their political leanings, despite presenting infallible evidence that contradicts their steadfast beliefs

I'm not out to change anyones mind, as you say some will vote the same way all their life, others will vote what suits them best at the time (me)

I guess my main aim is when labour throw away womens rights, I can come back and say "told you so"

Petty
Sur, I dont care.

Hospital wards is an interesting question.

My teenage daughter will be on a hospitals ward for many weeks this year. The ward is open plan. There will be boys and girls from 6months old to 16 years old on the ward, she could be in a bed next to any of them, although where possible the staff do try and keep the older children together and the younger ones together, but that is not always possible.
That has nothing to do with sex based rights, it is entirely to do with the way the current government has chosen to defund the health service.

Do you really only care about one issue? One issue that isn't supported by her colleagues (remember Penny M?).

KB is a nightmare in so many of her views but because she has spoken out on women that trumps all her evil opinions on everything else does it? Even though she will not be agreed with by her colleagues?

Oh to be in a position where only one issue matters.

Presumably it doesn't involve a lack of crictical thinking to look at the Home Secretary and think, ah I know that is the man who will protect women's rights.

Yes obviously the Labour die hards on these threads won’t change and I don’t care to convince them. But they won’t be able to say no one pointed out the likely further loss of sex based rights.

I don't think there are as many labour die-hards on here as you think. I suspect there are more people who just want to GTTO and know labour will be less horrific. However the Tory die-hards employees will defend the government no matter what.

Is @Flyhigher going to stop people making up their own mind? How?

As i said earlier and linked to the Tory Governments response, both parties have pretty much the same stance on the GRA.

The Government said that "the GRA strikes the right balance and we have no plans to change it" May 2023.

Its fair question to ask what will Labour do differently but its not fair to blame Lab but praise the Tories when the policy is the same.

How you would keep a man with a GRC out of a female space is anyones guess, perhaps thats why Boris lowered the fee from £140 to £5 ?

Atm the Tories seem keen to keep women out of female only spaces by closing them down.

Yes - me. A decent leader. It can’t come soon enough.

it should not be too much to ask for Labour to care enough about women to unequivocally state that they will repeal the GRC

So this isn’t just about opposing self ID. You actually want the government to repeal the GRA and remove the right for people to change their legal sex? Do you realise how much of an outlier that would make the UK?
People with the appropriate diagnosis/ treatment have the right to change their legal sex in virtually every western/ civilised/ democratic country in the world.

It's also not something the Tories are saying they will do.

lol feeling is mutual

As I said if people actually got out of Labour echo chambers and read threads where women were discussing what was going on then great

Vote for who you want but if you and others can only read pro Labour and absolutely not FWR then don’t be surprised when sex based rights are trashed. It’s all being posted about 🤷‍♂️

Oh, be fair. They only made a promise 13 years ago to end mixed sex wards.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/aug/16/government-promise-end-mixed-sex-hospital-wards