Will we loose everything

[somethinghasgottogive]

DH had a one night stand 12 years ago and had twin boys who are now 11.

The woman has never had a job even before having the boys (this is relevant)

DH works different shifts so he has his boys on different days throughout the month however they sleepover 13 nights a month. 11 nights with both the boys and 1 night a month each he has just one of the boys for 1-1 time especially as twins seem to get lumbared with being classed as the same person.

Despite this he has always paid £800 a month when he only has the boys for 2 days less than their mother.

I met my DH when the boys were almost 1 so I have been around a while. Once their mother found out about me (after a year of dating and DH wanting me to meet the boys) she started being difficult and not answering the door when DH would go to the house to pick the boys up, or not sending them to the childminders on the days my DH was due to pick them up from there after his shift. DH applied for mediation and the original contact schedule was resumed as court was suggested if she didn’t comply.

Anyway when the boys were 3 she announced that she had met someone and was moving to london and there was nothing that could be done about it. London is 3 hours a way from where we all lived and where are families are.

Me and DH had no choice but to sell our home with 4 bedrooms and a garden to move to london in a 3 bed flat which we both hate and the contact reminded the same as did the payments.

We have since had a child together and asked to reduce the money that he pays as with maternity pay and another child it’s not sustainable. She told us that the boys won’t be available then as she needs the money to pay her mortgage with her boyfriend (this is another man not the one she moved there for). In order to survive we have taken loans and credit cards. We are now having another baby and have again asked can the money be adjusted. She has said the same thing and keeps saying ‘ your choice to have a baby, you shouldn’t have children if your not capable of paying for them’. This really upsets me as she has never worked yet me and DH work and always have done. The main reasons me and DH need the money to change is because we are in debt, haven’t paid into our pensions for years because of it, our mortgage has almost doubled as our fixed rate ended, food doubled, insurance doubled and with another maternity leave coming we actually can’t survive. We will be left with £180 a month for food, clubs, days out, toiletries for our household with 2 children and the two boys. (we don’t pay for childcare as between me and my DH shifts and my flexible working option we wangle it well)

She has laughed and said there’s nothing we can do she will take pictures of the boys outside the house and say they were waiting for their dad to get them and he didn’t show up so he needs to pay.

What the hell do we do? Surely if she needs the money that’s paid to her then she must know we are desperate here. It is not time that she get a job she has had a free ride long enough and my DH pay maintenance for the 2 days a month he had the boys less?

Please any advice, we can't afford court not that it would matter anyway

Why are people so hostile to the notions of prudence, personal responsibility and putting the welfare of existing children above "broody" or "we want one of our own" feelings??

There is no rational reason, other than "I want it and I want it now!" that individuals need to be producing any offspring, let alone more than one or two. But there are many rational reasons to refrain. There are 8 billion people on this planet, all needing water, food, shelter, fuel and a way to earn a living. When one person produces multiple children, it adds to the burden. Takes a lot of gall, in my opinion, to decide that one's DNA is so precious that it must be replicated time and time and time again, usually at everyone else's expense.

That's fine, I feel differently though. I'd be willing to bet money that if someone did an anonymous poll of children who have stepfamilies, more of them would say they disliked it than liked it.

Doing what's best for the children would be focusing on them and them alone, not creating more to further dilute available resources.

The OP sounds like a very nice person and goodhearted. But the fact is that this man already had responsibility for two kids who got a shitty start in life, and that, rather than dating, forming a new relationship with someone who wants kids, etc., should have been his focus.

We're talking about going on to have more children with a new partner, not only having one child.

Respectfully I think the debate is fine as everyone is entitled to their opinion but this is the OPs life and derailing this thread feels inappropriate.

Very happy to debate if you want to set up a new thread.

I didn't say "dilute resources", that was a different poster.

Actually I agree. Will stop posting. I hope OP got some good advice.

I've stated my opinion in many previous posts. That I think in general, stepfamilies are not good for children. Nothing to do with diluting resources in any of my posts.

Op maybe I missed this, but why are folks saying go to court. You don’t seem to have said the amount is court ordered, just he’s always done it?

if court ordered, he needs to apply for a variance. If it is not, he just reduces to the cms amount. She then can apply for cms. No court would be required, she can try to take him to court.

he just needs to reduce it, but be prepared she may withold contact again and he will need to go back to court for that.

@Janieforever as I understand it there are two reasons to go to court.

A reduction in CM is likely to upset their Mum so she may try to stop any contact. Preempting this by getting a court agreed contact schedule makes it easier to resolve if she tries to do this.

The second is to get a lower CM agreed I.e. CMS level. Again by going via the court it preempts the potential for the Mum to withhold contact.

Ok, thanks, so she doesn’t need to go to get a lower cms agreed, as cms does not require to be court ordered. It’d literally to prevent her withholding contact.

homestly, I would not wait till it’s court approved. The court has already told her once she can’t withhold contact, so if she does it again he’s a quick route to fix.

op, just have him reduce to thr amount. If she withholds contact again, then please just follow the guidance given last time. There is no need for going to court to habe cms court ordered to preempt contact being withheld, as you’ve been that route already.

What happened after OP? Did you and your husband reduce the maintenance?

Update
Everything has turned quite nasty. We have gone through every contact as far back as 5 years and their mother has only had the boys 11 weekends in 5 years.

DH sent an email offering the following options

1.	The boys live with us full time

DH pays zero maintenance
She is to pay maintenance- £7 a week if she’s still claiming benefits roughly and if she gets a job then the correct amount of maintenance
DH claims the child benefit
No more £1000 Christmas money
No more paying in full for the ‘big ticket’ items throughout the year - (school trips birthday parties, golf clubs etc ) - half each
One in 8 weekends where she will have the boys Friday-Sunday at a minimum

2.	Officially have 50/50

No one pays maintenance
Half child benefit each
£250 Christmas money
Half each on big ticket items (school trips birthday parties, golf clubs etc )
One weekend in 8 at a minimum she is to look after the boys

Or

We move back to our cheaper area
50/50 will be impossible due to distance
But we will be able to reduce our mortgage by about £1500 a month and will only need one car as everything is within walking distance where we used to live which would easily free up another £300 a month

Options
3.The boys live with us full time
DH pays Zero maintenance
No maintenance from her either
She can keep the child benefit
£250 xmas money
Half each on big ticket items
DH will pay for all travel for the boys or for her for contact
She can have contact whenever she wants whenever she wants but a minimum of one weekend in 8 Friday-Sunday at a minimum

Or

4.We all move back including her
Officially 50/50
She can keep the child benefit
No maintenance from either
£500 Christmas money
DH will pay for all big ticket items (school trips birthday parties, golf clubs etc )
DH will facilitate all travel for the boys for contact and either him or me will do all the after school clubs and teams sports
One weekend in 8 she is to look after the boys Friday - Sunday at a minimum

DH asked what her thoughts were and if she had any other suggestions and in Regards to school holidays she can have whatever she wants and DH will work around her as he understands that big changes are needed to be made

However instead of replying she has contacted a solicitor and DH has received a letter advising that he is pushing her into poverty, she won’t be able to get a job because it’s not what she is used to and she shouldn’t be forced to suffer because our circumstances have changed. She has also included that she is not able to have the boys on any weekends because her boyfriend works Monday to Friday and the weekend is the only child free time they have together 🤯 DH has gone to seek legal advice and the solicitor was mind blown with the letter he had. Before he had a chance to reply she has sent another letter saying option 3 but with a ‘few tweaks’ (her words)…

3.we move back
The boys live with us full time
DH pays £400 maintenance
No maintenance from her
She keeps the child benefit
£1000 xmas money
DH pay for all travel for the boys or for her for contact
She wants one working week contact on any 2 week school holiday Monday- Friday and one week at Christmas Monday-Friday
6 week holiday she wants week 1 and week 5 Monday - Friday
Strictly no weekends
DH to pay for all big ticket items.

She has then followed up the second letter with an email saying ‘ if you want the kids full time then you pay for them’.

DH is devastated for the boys as it seems their mum doesn’t want them but it works out great for us. However DH is now torn between moving back to our old area and having the boys full time because they will only see their mum at Easter and Christmas for a week each and two weeks in the summer holidays. She might not be bothered but he is and so am I.

I would do what is best for the dc to have a full time life with you and dh. I doubt she will bother at all. Obviously claim whatever benefits you are entitled to.. Keep receipts to show you are providing for the dc. Clothes and shoes etc.. And any clubs. You will have to make counter claim. Her benefits will be suspended pending assessing your claim.

^3.The boys live with us full time
DH pays Zero maintenance
No maintenance from her either
She can keep the child benefit^

@somethinghasgottogive Why would she keep the child benefit which is money towards the upkeep of the children, if the kids were living with you and DH full time? The child benefit is for you then surely, as the children would be living with you. But I'm not an expert.

Don't move anywhere unless you really want to.

This all needs to be sorted out legally really and it'll be worth the money in the long run. Custody is the main issue. Maintenance she can apply for through CMS. Anything more your DH would be giving through the goodness of his heart- and he also has your DC to think of financially.

Just spotted this bit-

She has then followed up the second letter with an email saying ‘ if you want the kids full time then you pay for them’.

He already is really.

DH is devastated for the boys as it seems their mum doesn’t want them but it works out great for us. However DH is now torn between moving back to our old area and having the boys full time because they will only see their mum at Easter and Christmas for a week each and two weeks in the summer holidays. She might not be bothered but he is and so am I.

I don't think they'd be missing much by not seeing her much. Don't move unless you want to OP. Why should you and your family have her effectively call the shots of where you live. Presumably you prefer where you are.

Saying she can keep the child benefit was purely to make the deal sweeter to her and trying not to annoy her the least amount

That's insane! Who is your DH paying the £400 maintenence to if the children live with you full time? For her to live off?

I think your right she's is more occupied with her current boyfriend which is really sad. Me and DH would prefer to move back as our families are there and financially we would be over £1500 a month better off and that's before I go back to work. That money would mean holidays for the boys and their siblings and would mean they can all do whatever clubs or sports they want and also have lovely Christmas es and go on school trips which will start becoming expensive for the boys shortly as high school trips they go to places like France and skiing etc