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Original poster

Will we loose everything

261 replies

somethinghasgottogive · 30/12/2023 20:20

DH had a one night stand 12 years ago and had twin boys who are now 11.

The woman has never had a job even before having the boys (this is relevant)

DH works different shifts so he has his boys on different days throughout the month however they sleepover 13 nights a month. 11 nights with both the boys and 1 night a month each he has just one of the boys for 1-1 time especially as twins seem to get lumbared with being classed as the same person.

Despite this he has always paid £800 a month when he only has the boys for 2 days less than their mother.

I met my DH when the boys were almost 1 so I have been around a while. Once their mother found out about me (after a year of dating and DH wanting me to meet the boys) she started being difficult and not answering the door when DH would go to the house to pick the boys up, or not sending them to the childminders on the days my DH was due to pick them up from there after his shift. DH applied for mediation and the original contact schedule was resumed as court was suggested if she didn’t comply.

Anyway when the boys were 3 she announced that she had met someone and was moving to london and there was nothing that could be done about it. London is 3 hours a way from where we all lived and where are families are.

Me and DH had no choice but to sell our home with 4 bedrooms and a garden to move to london in a 3 bed flat which we both hate and the contact reminded the same as did the payments.

We have since had a child together and asked to reduce the money that he pays as with maternity pay and another child it’s not sustainable. She told us that the boys won’t be available then as she needs the money to pay her mortgage with her boyfriend (this is another man not the one she moved there for). In order to survive we have taken loans and credit cards. We are now having another baby and have again asked can the money be adjusted. She has said the same thing and keeps saying ‘ your choice to have a baby, you shouldn’t have children if your not capable of paying for them’. This really upsets me as she has never worked yet me and DH work and always have done. The main reasons me and DH need the money to change is because we are in debt, haven’t paid into our pensions for years because of it, our mortgage has almost doubled as our fixed rate ended, food doubled, insurance doubled and with another maternity leave coming we actually can’t survive. We will be left with £180 a month for food, clubs, days out, toiletries for our household with 2 children and the two boys. (we don’t pay for childcare as between me and my DH shifts and my flexible working option we wangle it well)

She has laughed and said there’s nothing we can do she will take pictures of the boys outside the house and say they were waiting for their dad to get them and he didn’t show up so he needs to pay.

What the hell do we do? Surely if she needs the money that’s paid to her then she must know we are desperate here. It is not time that she get a job she has had a free ride long enough and my DH pay maintenance for the 2 days a month he had the boys less?

Please any advice, we can't afford court not that it would matter anyway

OP posts:
Blondeshavemorefun · 31/12/2023 00:29

£800 a month. For a decade or so

Wow. He has been more then generous

Now they are older . She can get a job and you have a child coming

Namchanged · 31/12/2023 00:37

I’ve changed my mind the mum should get a job

TheFormidableMrsC · 31/12/2023 00:41

somethinghasgottogive · 30/12/2023 22:04

Thank you all I am on google now looking at how to start the court process. DH is going to speak with their mother after the new year now as we want to spend new year with the boys and if he mentions anything now then she will stop us having the boys here tomorrow. He said he will offer her £150 a month and make sure the boys stay and extra night a month so it's exactly 50/50 otherwise it's time to go to court. He will tell her he will continue paying for anything while the boys are with us and the big ticket items like school uniforms, new shoes etc providing she doesn't stop the contact or interfere with it

No no no. You tell her exactly nothing. Contact the CMS. Get that ball rolling. You can print out or apply online for a child arrangements order. Just do it. Don't negotiate, don't pay her extra or agree to anything. Get your ducks in a row before you show your hand. She's in for a shock. I speak as somebody who had to fight tooth and nail through court (representing myself) and has had fuck all in maintenance in 10 years. This situation is not ok. Do not pay the next £800. When she complains tell her she'll be in receipt of correspondence forthwith. Then she'll receive the court papers. You are formalising already established contact. You have nothing to fear in my view. This lazy cow is coming to the end of her pot of gold.

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TheFormidableMrsC · 31/12/2023 00:42

Namchanged · 31/12/2023 00:37

I’ve changed my mind the mum should get a job

Took a while.

Grendell · 31/12/2023 00:44

I don't think your DH has made poor choices at all. I think he is gullible and easily manipulated.

I don't think the twins' mother is flakey at all. I think she's an extortionist who knows exactly what she's doing.

LemonJeIIy · 31/12/2023 00:52

somethinghasgottogive · 30/12/2023 22:04

Thank you all I am on google now looking at how to start the court process. DH is going to speak with their mother after the new year now as we want to spend new year with the boys and if he mentions anything now then she will stop us having the boys here tomorrow. He said he will offer her £150 a month and make sure the boys stay and extra night a month so it's exactly 50/50 otherwise it's time to go to court. He will tell her he will continue paying for anything while the boys are with us and the big ticket items like school uniforms, new shoes etc providing she doesn't stop the contact or interfere with it

This sounds incredibly fair and just. Please stick to your guns though. Any wavering and se will see a weakness. Offer to have the boys more if she cant manage and this will force the boyf to put pressure o her to get a job

LittleMousewithcloggson · 31/12/2023 00:55

We were in a similar situation
Were paying 800 monthly to husbands ex for his kids plus half of school trips, uniform, shoes etc
She had no mortgage, claimed benefits and never worked
We had our own children and DH got made redundant. Had a lesser paid job and I couldn’t afford to subsidise the payments as had my own 2
We had a court order for that amount. On solicitors advice we offered £600 monthly instead. She said no
Solicitor told us that CMS had more authority than a court order (if court order had been in place over a year)
Applied to CMS and they said the correct amount was £175 a month
We switched to that immediately. She took us to court. Court agreed with the £175 as said they couldn't over rule CMS. Ex said we had offered £500 so she wanted that now. Court said no, it was £175 and there were no extras we were required pay (so no uniform etc)
Ex went ballistic and refused contact. Went to mediation and then court and access was granted with a warning to the ex that she must put children first

CMS is 100% the way to go

FlippyFloppyShoe · 31/12/2023 01:05

The only bit of the CMS calc I disagree with is that the original dependents amount reduces because more children come on the scene, so I wouldn't include that reduction but would reduce for number of nights etc

Toooldtoworry · 31/12/2023 07:20

FlippyFloppyShoe · 31/12/2023 01:05

The only bit of the CMS calc I disagree with is that the original dependents amount reduces because more children come on the scene, so I wouldn't include that reduction but would reduce for number of nights etc

This isn't about your opinion though, this is about what the father is legally liable for. If @somethinghasgottogive DH wants to contribute more then so be it, but there is no requirement and his one night stand has already been taking the piss financially.

Good advice earlier about not showing your hand @somethinghasgottogive

I'd actually spend the £20 to get the calculation done by the CMS and suffer the annual reviews because then its them telling her what's owed and she can't argue. Formalising the contact with a court order is important too. You've both bent over backwards for this woman. No more x

Temporaryname158 · 31/12/2023 07:40

At age 11 and you both living in close proximity I presume the boys have a phone? And so she is not going to be able to stop contact like she tried as babies. They can literally turn up at your house.

represent yourselves at court and ask the judge for the boys opinion to be included.

do not revert to £800 at any point again. You have been fools if you aren’t paying into pensions and have built up debt due to this as the lifestyle of 4 children is built on sand! Stop paying £800 and use the excess money to start paying off your debts! (Which you can also showcase at court as to why you can’t pay £800, have a budget to show the judge)

ImFloatingInAMostPeculiarWay · 31/12/2023 10:03

somethinghasgottogive · 30/12/2023 21:40

Sorry I wasn't clear

11 nights - twin A
11 nights - twin B
1 night on their own - twin A
1 night on their own - twin B

2 nights per months with myself and sibling. That's why I am I'll take to and from school/ clubs etc depending on DH shift. Example last Saturday the boys we're here all day Saturday and husband left for work at 6pm so the boys were with me and sibling and see there dad again in the daytime Sunday once he was back from work.

Show quote history

11 nights plus 1 night twin A is 12 nights

11 nights plus 1 night twin B is 12 nights

There are between 28/31 nights each month

12 is not nearly half of 28/31

Apologies if you've answered this already, but at this point it's not half

2 nights per months with myself and sibling
What do you mean here?

Original poster
somethinghasgottogive · 31/12/2023 10:39

@ImFloatingInAMostPeculiarWay
12 nights for the boys are here when their dad is and 2 nights a month their dad is not here but has been here in the day so they stay with myself and sibling which is 14 nights a month. On a 30 day month that means they are here 14 nights and at their mothers for 16 nights. Which means they are with their mother 2 nights a month more. Granted most months have 31 on those months she has the boys 3 nights a month more but they often stay here anyway as can't be bothered to go back to their mums. According to google so not sure if 100 percent correct but it doesn't matter if the boys are in the care of myself (step mum) or my DH just aslong as they are in their home with us that counts as another night.
I am not disputing that on a 39 day month we need to do an extra night so make it 100 percent 50/50 and on a 31 day month it will need to be another 0.5 night that's not the issue here they can stay whenever we just can't sustain paying so much money for essentially spending time with the boys the same amount as their mother especially when she is not putting a penny in and there are other children we need to factor in now too

OP posts:
Original poster
somethinghasgottogive · 31/12/2023 10:42

Thank you everyone for your advice as someone mentioned the boys do have phones which DH pays for so it's not like she can cancel the contracts and stop contact. Whenever DH goes to pick the boys up if they are not there because she's upset about the money then he will take a photo of proof that he was there and it will be time stamped so she can not say he didn't turn up. After a long talk DH is going to speak to her properly and give some options of how we can ALL survive

OP posts:
Original poster
somethinghasgottogive · 31/12/2023 10:43

somethinghasgottogive · 31/12/2023 10:39

@ImFloatingInAMostPeculiarWay
12 nights for the boys are here when their dad is and 2 nights a month their dad is not here but has been here in the day so they stay with myself and sibling which is 14 nights a month. On a 30 day month that means they are here 14 nights and at their mothers for 16 nights. Which means they are with their mother 2 nights a month more. Granted most months have 31 on those months she has the boys 3 nights a month more but they often stay here anyway as can't be bothered to go back to their mums. According to google so not sure if 100 percent correct but it doesn't matter if the boys are in the care of myself (step mum) or my DH just aslong as they are in their home with us that counts as another night.
I am not disputing that on a 39 day month we need to do an extra night so make it 100 percent 50/50 and on a 31 day month it will need to be another 0.5 night that's not the issue here they can stay whenever we just can't sustain paying so much money for essentially spending time with the boys the same amount as their mother especially when she is not putting a penny in and there are other children we need to factor in now too

*30 day month not 39

OP posts:
Toooldtoworry · 31/12/2023 10:43

That is admiral but don't let him be manipulated into the status quo.

Needanewnamebeingwatched · 31/12/2023 11:21

Would the boys live with you 100% of the time if asked?

Original poster
somethinghasgottogive · 31/12/2023 11:37

Needanewnamebeingwatched · 31/12/2023 11:21

Would the boys live with you 100% of the time if asked?

Yes they would they have asked many times not because they don't enjoy being at their mums but because it's very much a case of dads house is the boys house. With a bit of jiggling around and a few after school clubs/ breakfast clubs that would be more than possible. Mainly we haven't is because of the legal battle and as difficult as their mother is FH wouldn't want her loosing time with the boys and not would I . If it was be you couldn't bare not seeing my child/children often

OP posts:
MerryBlueberry · 31/12/2023 11:50

Namchanged · 31/12/2023 00:37

I’ve changed my mind the mum should get a job

Have you realised he’s got some brilliant advice and you should have taken his first offer as now going to CMS you’re going to get nothing? That apart from you, 99% of people on this thread think he’s gone above and beyond? And that no court in the land will stop contact when he moved his family to follow you and lives a worse life to see his sons?

Original poster
somethinghasgottogive · 31/12/2023 12:14

@Namchanged

I have counted all the nights the boys have stayed with us this month and it goes as follows. December 2nd,3rd,4th, 8th,9th,10th,14th,15th,16th, 17th,20th,21st,22nd,23rd, 25th,26th, 27th and tonight. I'm no mathematician but the boys have been with us more ..... again 🤷🏽‍♀️

OP posts:
Therealjudgejudy · 31/12/2023 12:51

A one night stand and he never got a dna test?? Your husband sounds incredibly naive.

Beezknees · 31/12/2023 13:04

She can get a job, the boys are 11. I'm a lone parent and I worked full time when mine was that age.

IncompleteSenten · 31/12/2023 13:09

He needs to give her a reality check here.

Tell her she can either accept £X amount or you will go through CMS and she will get £Y amount and that courts take a very dim view of parental alienation so if she's thinking of using the children she needs to know that will end badly for her.

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 31/12/2023 13:11

their mother is FH

What;s FH?

Original poster
somethinghasgottogive · 31/12/2023 13:32

70isaLimitNotaTarget · 31/12/2023 13:11

their mother is FH

What;s FH?

Mainly we haven't is because of the legal battle and as difficult as their mother is DH wouldn't want her loosing time with the boys and NOR would I . If it was ME you couldn't bare not seeing my child/children often
*
sorry 3 typos on my part*

OP posts:
DancingFerret · 31/12/2023 15:25

somethinghasgottogive · 31/12/2023 10:42

Thank you everyone for your advice as someone mentioned the boys do have phones which DH pays for so it's not like she can cancel the contracts and stop contact. Whenever DH goes to pick the boys up if they are not there because she's upset about the money then he will take a photo of proof that he was there and it will be time stamped so she can not say he didn't turn up. After a long talk DH is going to speak to her properly and give some options of how we can ALL survive

From what you've said, it's highly unlikely your DH talking to her "properly" is going to resolve anything. She really isn't going to be interested in how you're going to survive, especially as you've given her so much for so long.

If your DH really feels the need to give her advance notice, I suppose it would be courteous of him to tell her the gravy train is about to hit the buffers, but any attempt at negotiation won't result in a good outcome for him. Any reduction in the money you pay, no matter how it's achieved, will result in emotional blackmail and tantrums. You've had some good advice on here; forget the court route and just go for it.

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