Will we loose everything

[somethinghasgottogive]

DH had a one night stand 12 years ago and had twin boys who are now 11.

The woman has never had a job even before having the boys (this is relevant)

DH works different shifts so he has his boys on different days throughout the month however they sleepover 13 nights a month. 11 nights with both the boys and 1 night a month each he has just one of the boys for 1-1 time especially as twins seem to get lumbared with being classed as the same person.

Despite this he has always paid £800 a month when he only has the boys for 2 days less than their mother.

I met my DH when the boys were almost 1 so I have been around a while. Once their mother found out about me (after a year of dating and DH wanting me to meet the boys) she started being difficult and not answering the door when DH would go to the house to pick the boys up, or not sending them to the childminders on the days my DH was due to pick them up from there after his shift. DH applied for mediation and the original contact schedule was resumed as court was suggested if she didn’t comply.

Anyway when the boys were 3 she announced that she had met someone and was moving to london and there was nothing that could be done about it. London is 3 hours a way from where we all lived and where are families are.

Me and DH had no choice but to sell our home with 4 bedrooms and a garden to move to london in a 3 bed flat which we both hate and the contact reminded the same as did the payments.

We have since had a child together and asked to reduce the money that he pays as with maternity pay and another child it’s not sustainable. She told us that the boys won’t be available then as she needs the money to pay her mortgage with her boyfriend (this is another man not the one she moved there for). In order to survive we have taken loans and credit cards. We are now having another baby and have again asked can the money be adjusted. She has said the same thing and keeps saying ‘ your choice to have a baby, you shouldn’t have children if your not capable of paying for them’. This really upsets me as she has never worked yet me and DH work and always have done. The main reasons me and DH need the money to change is because we are in debt, haven’t paid into our pensions for years because of it, our mortgage has almost doubled as our fixed rate ended, food doubled, insurance doubled and with another maternity leave coming we actually can’t survive. We will be left with £180 a month for food, clubs, days out, toiletries for our household with 2 children and the two boys. (we don’t pay for childcare as between me and my DH shifts and my flexible working option we wangle it well)

She has laughed and said there’s nothing we can do she will take pictures of the boys outside the house and say they were waiting for their dad to get them and he didn’t show up so he needs to pay.

What the hell do we do? Surely if she needs the money that’s paid to her then she must know we are desperate here. It is not time that she get a job she has had a free ride long enough and my DH pay maintenance for the 2 days a month he had the boys less?

Please any advice, we can't afford court not that it would matter anyway

the boys are getting to a sensible age, would it be appropriate to begin the process of making them aware of contact days and pick up in such a way as to decrease manipulation?

OP - THIS!

Your DH has been incredible what he has been paying for his boys, he has gone above and beyond in relocating you both to be nearer to them.

I think the mother is going to regret being a silly lady. You both tried to keep it amicable with her in arranging things without the need for solicitors and the courts but she's done this to herself. This is excellent advice and I wish nothing but the best outcome for the children, your DH, yourself and the little bun you're cooking.

It always makes me chuckle when people who don’t work (and have never worked!) start lecturing other people on how they run their finances and subsidise them. I also vote go to court and don’t take any of her shit anymore

The reading comprehension on this thread is especially poor. She’s not an ex wife or some abandoned partner. She’s some little scrubber who got lucky from a random one night stand and had rinsed this guy for years

Are you drunk?

This poor family has been OVERPAYING this apparent bitch of a woman for years. If she wasn't rinsing them for everything she has, playing the system and blackmailing them, they'd be able to afford their child, comfortably.

They can afford to have another child. They can't afford to keep funding this woman's life while she sits on her arse. Big difference.

Several friends receive £25 a week per child. And that’s dads having them one night a week.

Id be surprised if you have to pay anything. She’s daft not to agree to a small reduction.

Thank you all I am on google now looking at how to start the court process. DH is going to speak with their mother after the new year now as we want to spend new year with the boys and if he mentions anything now then she will stop us having the boys here tomorrow. He said he will offer her £150 a month and make sure the boys stay and extra night a month so it's exactly 50/50 otherwise it's time to go to court. He will tell her he will continue paying for anything while the boys are with us and the big ticket items like school uniforms, new shoes etc providing she doesn't stop the contact or interfere with it

Maybe she's on benefits and can manage quite well on that plus the payments from the ex.

Make sure that ALL communication about the boys is in writing (whatsapp, text, email).

That way when she makes stupid threats about ending contact, disappearing etc etc, it is all documented.

I would not reveal to her how little she will get if the money drops to even near the CM calculation. Let her find that out as and when necessary.

I would however work VERY hard (without alienating the boys against their mother) to ensure they know that no matter what changes happen, you and their Dad love them and changes are ONLY happening due to finances NOT them.

I can all too easily see that you might have to move further away, and their Mum will tell them that contact arrangements have changed because you have a new baby and no longer want them! Even the most robust 11 year olds will struggle to cope with what seems a logical answer for the changes happening in their lives!

@somethinghasgottogive That's good. As I understand it, if he does start seeing them entirely 50/50 then he actually owes her nothing as it's assumed both parties are paying for the kids' stuff equally.

Laziness in short

Basically she doesn't pay anything. School trip she will text and say she needs X amount for it so DH pays that, the boys need new golf clubs he will go get some with the boys and pay, the boys birthday parties is always dokey paid for by him, school uniform have always been DH so yes anything big ticket items he will just continue to pay that won't change but the monthly payments will

@KombuchaKalling that last sentence 😂 even if the dad continued to pay £800 a month, she should get a job so she could provide an even better life for her children! She has support from the father both physically and financially, she makes a mockery of those single parents going through hell! As I said, I have no respect for women who use their children as pawns to get money from the fathers (and this is coming from someone who would rarely stick up for fathers who are looking to pay less maintenance)

@somethinghasgottogive
Basically she doesn't pay anything. School trip she will text and say she needs X amount for it so DH pays that, the boys need new golf clubs he will go get some with the boys and pay, the boys birthday parties is always dokey paid for by him, school uniform have always been DH so yes anything big ticket items he will just continue to pay that won't change but the monthly payments will

I would be asking for receipts for all of these big ticket items before money is given, as she might start adding money on as the payments have gone down. So the uniforms were X amount but now she is asking for XX amount.

In family Court it is quite common for parties to self represent. Especially for straightforward cases like this. Boys have been doing almost 50 50 for a long time, you want this to continue and all you are doing is getting this formalised.
Judges will not expect you to act like a barrister ! Just explain the situation which is that ex is threatening to withdraw custody and so you want this written down as there is a strong relationship with the boys and you want this to continue. You've made all the effort to maintain contact ie by moving. It's absolutely fine and there will be no problem I think in securing this.
You just have to pay a court fee which is in the order of 200 quid.I believe.
Then re maintenance you know what CMS says, you know what you are paying today. You can pay a bit more if you want and maybe that would be sensible to not overly aggravate the situation. But only you know what you can afford.
Ignore PP who say he shouldn't have had another baby. There's plenty who do! And you can afford it ! It's just you can't afford to keep overpaying this ex!

I've been the receiving parent of child maintenance which has been sporadic, non existent or just a laughable amount and I'm happy with whatever I get. I've certainly never relied on it. I commend your OH for paying this much for so long (probably to keep the peace- you have also moved to a more expensive area just to stay close to the twins which most would not). He sounds like a wonderful father and you a wonderful step mum. I'd show her the CMS calculation and use that as a talking point for a renegotiation. I probably wouldn't flat out say that's all you are paying from now on as she seems volatile. Use that figure as a baseline and then get courts involved if she threatens to withhold access. What you are paying now is just not sustainable. I wish you all the best.

Ah here is the twins mother!!

Did he ever do a dna test?

If not, he should be getting that done sharpish.

Basically she doesn't pay anything. School trip she will text and say she needs X amount for it so DH pays that, the boys need new golf clubs he will go get some with the boys and pay, the boys birthday parties is always dokey paid for by him, school uniform have always been DH so yes anything big ticket items he will just continue to pay that won't change but the monthly payments will

Ah ok @somethinghasgottogive , make sure she doesn't take the pee with that too- if an item seems unnecessary/excessive maybe sometimes he'll have to say no to her? Or a lot of women in your position get annoyed. It's another way your DC can end up being comparatively disadvantaged. There have been threads on here from women whose husbands keep giving their exes stuff and cash in this way too and never say no. It might be for the boys but will still lead to him having less for stuff all round.

Here, here.

@somethinghasgottogive
Do not go back to normal payments of £800 when your kids are older. Just don’t! You do not earn enough to raise 4 kids if you’re giving her £800 a month. And you are raising 4 kids because you have the boys 50% of the time. She gets what CMS says and that’s it. You use the money saved to support your family, including the boys. Stop giving it to her. She needs to get a job. (I say this as a mum of 2 who receives child maintenance from my ex; I would never expect him to pay more because he also has to support himself!).

You do not need to worry about contact. Court will side with you.

I totally agree she should get a job. Be more independent (sounds like she going to have to be!) and set a better example to her children

Only drama is with this sort of person is she will cut contact for the financial incentives.

Less time kids at yours = more money for her.

Please get an order in place asap. Contact CMS and let them do the calculations. It's sounds like you pay way too much. Also having your two kids will reduce the payments to her alone by 12%. Contact Fathers for Justice a Yorkshire based charity, they have a very reasonable cap on fees to support you.

For future reference if she moves away again then the mileage and cost for you to get to your children can be deductible of CM payments.

We've been in a very similar situation. I really feel for you.

He made zero poor choices. Those boys are incredible and neither of us would be without them.

Of course he's made poor choices, spending 800 a month which he can't afford and moving from 'our home with 4 bedrooms and a garden to move to london in a 3 bed flat which we both hate' without taking any legal advice.

I mean, yes, it's good that he paid so much but only if he can afford it. Otherwise, you cut your cloth accordingly and don't let yourself get into a terrible financial situation where your second family suffers as a sacrifice to your first.

He has made poor decisions and you both need to get proper legal and financial advice to try and salvage what you can.

Yes, your DH has to do this to keep contact with his twins. He can represent himself so to keep cost to a minimum. He should text her and say he can only pay the CMS minimum amount and keep any text message reply she sends. Record any phone call she speaks on.

I think he needs to start court proceedings to formalise everything because as soon as he says he's paying less, she'll play funny buggers. At least if the paperwork is in motion for court, she's less likely to be ridiculous because she'll know it's heading to court and it'll all come out in the wash?