Will we loose everything

[somethinghasgottogive]

DH had a one night stand 12 years ago and had twin boys who are now 11.

The woman has never had a job even before having the boys (this is relevant)

DH works different shifts so he has his boys on different days throughout the month however they sleepover 13 nights a month. 11 nights with both the boys and 1 night a month each he has just one of the boys for 1-1 time especially as twins seem to get lumbared with being classed as the same person.

Despite this he has always paid £800 a month when he only has the boys for 2 days less than their mother.

I met my DH when the boys were almost 1 so I have been around a while. Once their mother found out about me (after a year of dating and DH wanting me to meet the boys) she started being difficult and not answering the door when DH would go to the house to pick the boys up, or not sending them to the childminders on the days my DH was due to pick them up from there after his shift. DH applied for mediation and the original contact schedule was resumed as court was suggested if she didn’t comply.

Anyway when the boys were 3 she announced that she had met someone and was moving to london and there was nothing that could be done about it. London is 3 hours a way from where we all lived and where are families are.

Me and DH had no choice but to sell our home with 4 bedrooms and a garden to move to london in a 3 bed flat which we both hate and the contact reminded the same as did the payments.

We have since had a child together and asked to reduce the money that he pays as with maternity pay and another child it’s not sustainable. She told us that the boys won’t be available then as she needs the money to pay her mortgage with her boyfriend (this is another man not the one she moved there for). In order to survive we have taken loans and credit cards. We are now having another baby and have again asked can the money be adjusted. She has said the same thing and keeps saying ‘ your choice to have a baby, you shouldn’t have children if your not capable of paying for them’. This really upsets me as she has never worked yet me and DH work and always have done. The main reasons me and DH need the money to change is because we are in debt, haven’t paid into our pensions for years because of it, our mortgage has almost doubled as our fixed rate ended, food doubled, insurance doubled and with another maternity leave coming we actually can’t survive. We will be left with £180 a month for food, clubs, days out, toiletries for our household with 2 children and the two boys. (we don’t pay for childcare as between me and my DH shifts and my flexible working option we wangle it well)

She has laughed and said there’s nothing we can do she will take pictures of the boys outside the house and say they were waiting for their dad to get them and he didn’t show up so he needs to pay.

What the hell do we do? Surely if she needs the money that’s paid to her then she must know we are desperate here. It is not time that she get a job she has had a free ride long enough and my DH pay maintenance for the 2 days a month he had the boys less?

Please any advice, we can't afford court not that it would matter anyway

Don't put payments back to normal when you go back full time...! Do this on the CMS calculation and by all means pay more than that calculation if he wants to do that whilst explaining that via CMS it'll be a lot less. If you're worried about custody arrangements being affected because of maintenance changes, forestall this with legal advice and proof that until the change she was more than happy with the custody arrangements; that you moved to maintain contact. This shows his dedication and commitment as do all the past large payments

This is a complicated one… whilst the CMS payment is likely way lower than £800, it’s far from what it actually costs to raise children so I don’t think £800 is unreasonable. However I also don’t think you should have moved - you should have gone to court back then either for full custody (she clearly doesn’t have a stable lifestyle) or for a court ordered arrangement which would have prevented her from moving or risk losing custody. You’ve allowed her to dictate for a very long time to the detriment of everyone else; mainly the two poor kids stuck in the middle of this. You should never have moved and fought for them to stay there… at this point I think you need legal advice and to reorganise this to suit the best interests of the twins.

Has paternity been established by DNA test?

Child maintenance goes down when he has other children op.

Check the CMS calculator.

I’m a bit confused by the amount of days. Each twin is officially at yours 12 nights a month, so they’re each with their mum for 18 or 19 days a month. That’s 50% more time, not just two days.

Not that it matters particularly, she’s still being greedy and you need to sort it out legally.

Go through CM and court. Petition for 50/50 if you'd like, then there won't be anything to pay and it sounds not far off anyway. Get court mandated contact if necessary, as others have said the twin's wishes will be considered.

I once read about an inspiring woman on MN whose abusive ex withheld her kids from her. She went to court and got her contact hours. She'd turn up on time every week, and every week the ex would be out or not answer the door to stop her seeing her children. She would sit on his porch and phone the police, every single time. It worked.

Hi- contact and maintenance aren’t linked in any way so she can’t stop contact because of reduced maintenance. Courts will not approve. Contact should only be stopped for serious welfare concerns.

do the child maintenance through Child maintenance service. That way he is paying the right amount.

for advice on contact I found www.childlawadvice.org.uk a godsend when having problems. It’s free legal advice.

No DNA has never been DH didn't want to suggest it incase it caused for their mother be difficult but they are very similar to DH so I would be shocked if the boys are not his

At the time when she moved it was literally a case of I'm moving on the weekend and if you cause a problem I won't tell you where and you'll never find us type of situation. My DH was terrified he would loose his boys and so was I

This is a rubbish situation, but it seems like one in which you just have to deal with what’s possible (and what’s in your family’s and your step sons’ best interests) for the next 10 years, not the next 10 months. You also have to accept the parameters at play given the people/history involved - not that it’s right, but it is what it is - wishing it were different is a pointless waste of energy.

So, if you took to court, self represented etc what the outcome you’d want? If it is no payment or minimal payment to twins’ mum, do you have any idea what this will mean for her financial position/housing etc? Are you and your husband prepared for this to mean that any after school activities or extras for the boys may be discontinued? Would you want to or be able to pay for these if you weren’t paying maintenance? Are you prepared to deal with her playing silly buggers about pick up or refusing to split care 50/50 any longer on the basis she can’t afford to have them living with her? You need to work out what your bottom line is, figure out what this will mean for the boys in real terms and (ideally without court) discuss with her.

It seems to me that you got caught in a bit of a trap when you moved to London and then began your own family down the line, and it’s now time to rethink the situation… the boys are now secondary age, you have young children, you don’t like where you live and you don’t have enough space. How viable is it for you to move back home and change custody to school holidays/every other or every third weekend (depending on cost of getting the boys up to your place)? At this age they should be able to get a train and be met the other end. Does this work better in the long term for you? Will telling their mother that you’re considering this change anything about her attitude (ie. she will be losing a significant amount of day to day childcare support, perhaps she’d rather have that than the money). Could your husband find a way through this with the boys in which they didn’t feel abandoned? Would you be better off financially if you rented out the London flat and rented somewhere in your old neck of the woods? Is your work portable?

Given where you are I don’t see that you have many other options… It’s either stick to your guns and deal with the consequences (stressful, just a continuation of the same old rubbish for the next x years). Or overhaul your lives and make as much space as possible for the twins.

At least if you and your H have to move away the boys are old enough to have this explained to them in financial terms (unable to afford to stay in London), and perhaps it’ll create a better situation for you all in future. More of the same doesn’t seem as though it’s going to work…

Are you sure those figures are correct and aren't per week?

My DH and I overpaid for years against the CMS calculator. When his ex wife started threatening legal action when we stopped paying as the youngest was 17 and in full time employment we went to a family law solicitor. Solicitor advised that you can reclaim overpayment, it’s usually taken off what you’re meant to pay until any overpayment is cleared.

That's his choice. Your DH has made some very poor choices which have led you into debt. He's your problem really.

Too late to do anything about it but why on earth move to London , over 3 hours away from your old property to a smaller (and probably more ££) one on her whim that she's met someone else ?

If you'd gone to court then and everything was scrutinised there could've been some compromises made .
How many times have I read on MN "Well your feckless XDP has moved two hours away , HE needs to make all the travel arrangements to facilitate contact "

She's made a lot of demands hasn't she ?

Is he on the Birth Certificate ?

I would definately have insisted on a DNA test when they were little .

Sorry I wasn't clear

11 nights - twin A
11 nights - twin B
1 night on their own - twin A
1 night on their own - twin B

2 nights per months with myself and sibling. That's why I am I'll take to and from school/ clubs etc depending on DH shift. Example last Saturday the boys we're here all day Saturday and husband left for work at 6pm so the boys were with me and sibling and see there dad again in the daytime Sunday once he was back from work.

Pay the £139 going forward. Tell her to go through CMS if she disagrees. The children are an age with internet access she can’t just vanish now, they will have your number and address and know how to find you online. If she withholds access no court is going to side with her and they’ll see you’ve had 50/50 up tunic now and will reinstate that. Or the boys will ask to live with you and then she’ll have to pay maintainance

Wow, 800.

A lot of men probably wouldn'tve moved somewhere 3 hours away from where they were just to be near their kids, too.

@somethinghasgottogive Would he want to go for 50/50 custody (as he probably virtually is doing that, anyway?)

Can anyone explain to me why the mother can't get a job? It sounds like the custody is shared 50:50, so why can't she get a job and put in for her children too? As a single mother who gets bare minimum and work three jobs to pay for my child to go to nursery and have a great life, I struggle to have sympathy for this lazy woman who has had a lot of financial support and then manipulates the situation when her lifestyle might be up in the air! Also, if she doesn't have a job how come she has a mortgage?

There was no way she was ever going to cut contact - she wants the money.

@WallaceinAnderland

He made zero poor choices. Those boys are incredible and neither of us would be without them.

Honestly I'm glad we moved, we may hate it here but those boys no damn well that my DH and myself adore them and would do anything for them. Plus she's a very flakey woman she's the kind of person who would just disappear off the face of the earth and stop him seeing his boys

To all of you who are saying DH is terrible and shouldn't have more children I hope you work, pay a mortgage, car etc and on top pay £800 a month to your children before you start throwing stones.

What a stupid comment.

He can afford other kids. He's been paying his vile, work shy ex wife far too much for far too long. Knock it down to what it should be and I'm sure they can manage it. The issue is that the ex will try and use this to restrict access. Any decent judge will see straight through it of course. Maintenance and contact are two separate issues. Keep all communication op.

please update us when this is sorted you both sound terrifyingly under informed

Yes we would want 50/50 just worried about court costs but someone said upthread said he can represent himself. If that's the case then that will be the next step. I can't see that being rejected

@Namchanged

Hi you sound familiar. Merry Christmas and a happy new year

Yep and of course it's a secondary issue but might make him feel more secure about contact with the boys etc.

When it comes to the money PP's are right, he could just screenshot the calculator thing, and if she wants to query it with CMS she can- it certainly won't end up anywhere near 800 at all.

There are very few circumstances where I'd argue about maintenance but this is one of them. He needs to go to the CMS and let them assess. If you have almost 50/50 and another child then she is in for a shock. You need a contact order via the court. It is not expensive to apply for (although I appreciate your situation). You can self represent. I've done it myself. Start the ball rolling on Tuesday morning. Call her bluff. She is massively taking the piss and using the boys as a weapon. Cafcass will put a stop to that and maintenance will be based on his salary (not yours) taking into account the amount you have them and the fact there is another child. You need to be strong and united in this. I can't believe you've done all this to accommodate her. It's got to stop.

She doesn't have a job because she doesn't want one. DH doesn't actually know the ins and outs of her current living situation, if it's the boyfriends home and she's paying him to pay his mortgage or rent or if they are in the rent agreement together or even if the house she is in is maybe a family home of the boyfriends. DH doesn't actually know she just said she needs the money to 'pay the mortgage'. Could be truth or could be a lie