Don't know how to deal with this. Ds scamming people online

[1newname]

Back story is we've stopped giving him money due to many ultimatums regarding weed. Last week he was showing off about how he's managed to find a way to make money. I knew it would be something dodgy and he had sold something online which he doesn't have to sell. I told him how disgusted I was, how he's behaving like a scumbag etc. Initially he didn't care but then said he knew it was wrong and wouldn't do it again. And now he has.

I'm so disappointed. I'm embarrassed with how he's turning out. He doesn't seem to have any morals. Every wrong thing a teen can do, he's done. Graffiti, shop lifting, excessive weed smoking and now this. I give up.

He is 17; not a child.

About all I would do is explain the consequences of what he is doing and explain your disappointment in what he is doing. So that he knows, absolutely knows you don't agree. And you should have your own boundaries as to what is acceptable in your house. In a years time you will face a choice about what you are letting an adult do in your home. That will have consequences for you and your life.

Remove the Wi-Fi access.

School won't be in the business of shepherding him in at 17.

All this stuff about weed is convenient. The truth is that the people who sell it to him are of a similar mindset, don't mind scamming people, it's nothing, and that's where your son is now. It's not the substance but the company he keeps. If you can change that then there is hope.

He seems to think he can't be traced but I don't think he fully understands how it works.

Sometimes I honestly wonder if there is a problem with the way he processes things. About a year ago he brought a one night stand home (we didn't know until the next day, he said his friend was staying over) and couldn't understand why we weren't happy about it. Nothing seems to be a big deal to him.

He seems to think he can't be traced but I don't think he fully understands how it works.

If he believes that, he's an even bigger idiot than he seems to be.

He never seems to face any consequences OP. Unless he’s using the dark web and god only knows what to hide the IP then he can and will be traced. You need to kick him into touch fast.
Only it’ll be you that may face charges. The police will take your devices and see this thread for one.

Is he using his own website or a website like eBay? I know someone who was doing this through eBay and he spent some time in prison for it in the end. His name and photo were printed in the local newspaper. He was only in his early 20s I think. Sorry, I’m not saying this to make you more stressed, but perhaps you could show your son articles about people who have been caught.

You need to call the police.

I've done it myself when my eldest son's behaviour was intolerable. He'd been lying, stealing, cheating for several years (stealing from me and his siblings and his Dad, my ex). Eventually, once he was 18 and out of school, I decided his behaviour would rub off on my other two if I didn't do something so I told him to go. He refused and I called the police. So I wasn't reporting him for theft etc but to him it was serious. I told him that I'd explained everything to the police and they were on their way to the house. I also said that once the matter was in their hands, I wouldn't be able to stop the process of him being charged/prosecuted. Within half an hour he'd packed a bag and left for his Dad's house. His Dad let him stay for a few months until his behaviour became intolerable there and then I let him come back to me. He later went to uni and then got a flat with his gf and some friends. He got a good job etc and is now doing well, but I have to say the deceit is still there and the tendency to lie etc I don't think will ever go. I'm sad that he's turned out like this and I don't know what I could have done differently, but to have your own child stealing your bank card, stealing cash, stealing his sibling's gifts and cheating numerous times on his gf (in my house btw) was unbearable. There's only so much a person can take and I had to draw the line somewhere.

This was a child who had a good upbringing, excellent schools, lots of privilege and he still went off the rails.

Until you've been in that position, you really don't know how awful it is.

@1newname Because your son is 17 he may not face full criminal charges and consequences. Your best bet really is to turn him into the police as a form of intervention. Tell them that’s what you want and that you need help. There may be programmes to help him.

By trying to handle it yourself and within your family, you’re building a ticking time bomb that will eventually explode in your face. You need to get outside help. 💐

There's a reason behind all this OP. Sometimes it's family issues (eg domestic violence, death, parents splitting, new partner then new baby) so that home is not the stable place it needs to be. Or there might be neurodivergence in there causing issues over acceptance within their peer group, so they do things to try and fit in, and if it's the wrong crowd, then those things can become criminal acts.

Tell me about your son, who are his friends? Before the weed, what was going on for him? Did he talk to you about how he felt about what was going on in his life? Did he like school? Did he have hobbies? Was he generally happy and respectful?

I know someone who is similar who has ADHD/ASD and possibly conduct disorder. Does this link ring any bells?
https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mental-health/parents-and-young-people/information-for-parents-and-carers/behavioural-problems-and-conduct-disorder-for-parents

@1newname you are looking for excuses.

You have to do something. Doing nothing in this case is not ok. What happens if someone comes for him? People don't like being ripped off. I assume you would like the police's help then?

@hitherandhither - lots of people are neurodivergent or have experienced issues of the kind you describe and don’t become criminals. And similarly many criminals haven’t experienced any of these things but are selfish/narcissistic/otherwise unempathetic individuals.

One or more of the things you have cited may or may not be a contributing factor in the case of the OP’s son but they aren’t the reason and you do people who are neurodivergent in particular a massive disservice by suggesting that they are predisposed to criminality!

That is fraud. He is taking money from people by deception. That money is possibly their Christmas present fund and they are now left with no item and no money. Thats awful.

Its not going to get any better until he faces consequences.

@Katrinawaves agreed. It's offensive.

@Katrinawaves Nowhere have I said it's just because of neurodivergence.

My family themselves are neurodivergent (and we are not criminals!) and there have definitely been issues around friendships and understanding communication. I work with neurodivergent and neurotypical children everyday and deal with these issues regularly, and yes, it is because of neurodivergence on occasion (impulsivity in ADHD, for example) and also because of life experiences and influences.

So to clarify, neurodivergence in and of itself does not mean a person will be predisposed to criminality, but they are more vulnerable and, alongside other factors, can (not will!) lead them to engage in criminal acts.

"A new report written by the Chief Inspector of Prisons, ‘Neurodiversity in the Criminal Justice System‘, (2021) suggests that it’s possible that half of people entering prison can “be expected to have some form of neurodivergent condition which impacts their ability to engage.”"
https://www.catch-22.org.uk/resources/neurodiversity-in-the-criminal-justice-system/

See the original report here: https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/cjji/media/press-releases/2021/07/neurodiversity-in-criminal-justice-system-more-effective-support-needed-say-inspectorates/

Remove phone, change all WiFi passwords.

What platform is he using to sell on?

I’d be worried for the safety of the whole family.

something in him seems to be missing. He needs professional help.

UK prisons now all have Neurodiversity Support Managers. Because a massively high proportion of people in prison are ND, LD or have developmental trauma.
Not all ND people are predisposed to criminality but they do face barriers that can lead to it. Just like ethnic minorities face structural racism that can also lead the same way, but not all people of colour are criminals. It's nuanced and not, excuse the phrase, black and white.

have a look at all your posts, OP. You are ineffectual as a parent and you need help. 2 years he's been smoking weed?

Call the bloody police before someone else does. And frankly? he deserves a criminal record. And yes, i am judging you.

It will be one of the hardest things you ever do, but you must do it.

I wouldn't be surprised if u lose your son completely in time. Cruel words to say about your DS.

Not as cruel as scamming innocent people.

You have to be 18 to sell on online platforms OP - though I'm not sure if they check or if it's just a tick box? I sell online but can't remember what the verification process was, if any.

You need to find out exactly how he has done this, how is he getting paid? he could be doing it in your name!

I don't think it's likely that you'll lose your son if you don't want to, but unless you demonstrate some boundaries then he'll have no respect for you at all and the whole situation will just drive you mad.

It's possible to set boundaries and let someone know their behaviour is unacceptable but that, notwithstanding that behaviour, you still love them and are there for them no matter what.

I'd hate for my son (as per my post above) to think there was no-one in his corner supporting him at a time when he might need it. I'll always be there for him, despite the shameful behaviour.

I don't know if I can report him to the police, I don't want him to get a criminal record. I agree the weed addiction is causing him to behave like this but I don't know what to do.

Trust me, he will get a criminal record before long, from someone who has no qualms about pursuing a fraud case. Or, as others have also pointed out, the shit kicked out of him instead. If anyone gets to know his address (thinking dealers too)...well, that's also your address, no? So please read over the posts that say how that affects getting an account, cards, any independence until he is at least 23. Think too about the relationship of address to credit scores for ALL people who are resident there.

The police may do nothing. Talk to fraud/ criminal behaviour support helplines. Sad though it is, I've known people I would never in a lifetime think would throw their sons out, end up with no choice, and it being this that did turn their life around at the same kind of age.

I work in IT among other things. This week just gone has been a monumental flood of cyber shite. Scams, vulnerabilities, you name it. In real life I have 3 friends and family members who have been the victims of big thefts and card fraud and cannot afford to be. I hope your son rethinks, or realises the kind of things coming to him.

Yep, I'd say he hasn't a scooby. You seriously think that he has more smarts than the online platforms and banking?

I feel for you OP. My brother was the same, calling the police won't do anything, my brother has been arrested dozens of times and only faced real prison time in his 30's. My poor mum is beside herself with him, but you can't physically control a young, strong, angry man or stop him making bad decisions. I don't know what the answer is.

If he refunds the people he scammed will this still stand? If it was my DC I would make them sell their phone/electronics to pay the people back. Then get a holiday job to replace a basic phone.