Why are so many dads absent

[randomtuesday]

My dad has never really been around for my life or most of his children's lives. He's been in and out and then just disappears and ignores messages or resolution.
So many fathers appear to be like this and you're often hearing about 'deadbeat' dads.
Why is this? I'm trying to understand why my father just doesn't care and why this is so common

I've definitely read on here about the phenomenon of some men only maintaining interest in their children while the relationship with the mother endures. It's more unusual for a man to admit it and maybe some don't even realise that they feel that way until a relationship breakup.

There is a very long thread on here ( one of many) from women desperate to marry and have children with someone who was reluctant at best and they push and push and make themselves miserable rather than just leave. I wouldnt be surprised if many of these men when the going gets tough just say ' I didnt want this in the first place' and justify their leaving to themselves and others, who just accept it.

Let’s not forget that quite a few mums make terrible choices when it comes to letting someone fertilise their eggs.

Ultimately i think they are more selfish in general and cant deal with the relentlessness and sacrifices.

I've been separated from my children due to a messy divorce and it was like a living death for me, my obsession every waking moment was how do i get them back. Everything i did was geared towards it, i remained fully engaged in their lives and refused to go quietly into the night, i do not see this from the vast majority of dads in this position, they tend to rather easily throw their hands up helplessly and claim 'she wont let me see them'. Kudos to the one guy i know with a problematic ex who has refused to give up on his son. He has fought her in court numerous times, overcomes all her shit and seen his son for genuine quality time at every opportunity, really put his back into it.

I can't understand the "real man" thing. First time I heard it was my sister's mother in law saying it when her grandson, our nephew, had a child with a girlfriend around 17 years old! She said something like "he's proved himself a real man". I was gobsmacked - here he was, knocking up some poor girl he'd barely known for a few weeks, no job, unemployed, barely any qualifications because he couldn't be arsed at school, both living at their own parental homes, but somehow he was a "real" man just by sticking his cock into some poor girl - something that literally 99% of males can do. How is that being a "real"man? The mind boggles.

He's "proved" himself to be a "real man" a few times since (that we know of), and now has four children with four different women, and he's left them all, still no job, still "sofa surfing", usually moving in with his latest victim or resorting to returning home to "mummy" to sleep on her sofa when he can't find a woman to share her bed with him.

Last time I saw her, sister's mother in law was still harping on about he's a real man because he's got 4 (maybe more) children - not a word at all about how he's really just a leech on society, his criminal record, not interested in his children except birthdays and christmas when he sweeps in with his big "I am" act making out he's the best father ever.

Some women, particularly girlfriends, wives, mothers, etc., need to take off their rose coloured spectacles and see some men for what they are - which is barely better than neanderthals, and certainly not "real men"!

A "real man" would take his responsibilities seriously, work for a living, not be a criminal, not leave their woman at the first sign of things being hard, providing for their offspring, etc.

But these women have equal responsibility in sleeping with him, it takes two

So maybe they should chose better?

I think they can be more detached because they don't carry the baby for 9 months and can't breast feed. It's much easier for men to be less involved or walk away

Because they can. Cms do fuck all to make them pay so its just easier for them to walk away and pop back to play daddy to impress the new girlfriend.
I think more women should be disgusted with men not paying/seeing their children but they end up having kids with him then moan he's left them and isn't paying maintenance.

Because even on this thread men who leave their kids, never to bother with them again, are not being called out for the arseholes that they are, but the mums are being blamed for having kids with these arseholes. Misogyny runs deep even on MN

It's both.
I have read far too many threads on MN from women whose desire to have a baby overrides all the reasons why they shouldn't have one with the partner they have.

There are so many threads where women are TTCing with partners with addiction issues or men who don't want to make that commitment or men who clearly aren't going to step up when the baby arrives.

The overwhelming advice is to stop TTC, but "I want a baby" is the only goal that some of these women have regardless. All common sense goes out of the window. And then of course, these feckless poor excuses of men just disappear.

I feel that this kind of thing should be covered in PHSE classes at school.

I think many women have a child with an inappropriate partner who they think they can mould into what they want given time.

You see the type who want to get married and have a child within a couple of years of meeting and just assume that taking such steps will result in commitment on both sides despite them often not being compatible.

There is also a very different degree of biological pull for women to have children that men rarely experience. This can massively cloud people’s judgment.

Because even on this thread men who leave their kids, never to bother with them again, are not being called out for the arseholes that they are, but the mums are being blamed for having kids with these arseholes. Misogyny runs deep even on MN
People are criticising men who leave their kids and don't provide! It's awful behaviour.

For some women their whole world comes crashing down when the man that's previously been a good partner and claimed he wants a family decides to fuck off because he can't be bothered anymore.

For other situations there were huge warning signs and mile after mile of red flag bunting. It isn't misogyny to suggest that if you meet a man with kids he already hardly sees (if at all) and kids he already doesn't provide for financially that he's showing you exactly who he is and it's probably a bad idea to have a baby with him because he's likely to do the same to you. Same for men who are already showing they're selfish, men think their partner slots in around social life, drinking and hobbies, and men who already do nothing or very little around the house. It's not misogyny to identify that these men have shown us exactly who they are and they're not going to magically step up and be a great partner and hands on father once a baby arrives. The idea of have a baby with a man and that'll make it real to him and he'll have to take it in his stride is a stupid point of view.

Men are responsible for their behaviour and choices.
Women are responsible for their behaviour and choices.

I agree with this. Yes they wanted kids - just as long as someone else does all the work, takes all the responsibility so they can opt into any fun bits. Or opt out, when it no longer suits them.

You will see this in the next few weeks all over this board - fathers who demand to have their kids for 1% of the time all the rest of the year yet still want 50% of Christmas.

its their sense of entitlement. Same reason as men have affairs.

I know there’s a certain type of woman ( some on this thread ) who like to
believe that it’s feckless women having sex with randomers/ men on secret missions / women who held men down and raped them for their sperm / poor men who couldn’t cope with a disabled child / evil abusers / whatever who end up as single mums.

I think it’s a kind of self protection - they need to believe it will never happen to then and their kids because they are smart women who chose to have healthy NT kids with responsible men in a stable relationship.

It’s the same as the women who see rape victims as tarts who got drink wearing short skirts.

At the end of the day, this.

While this may be the case, the overwhelming majority of absent dads are absent because they choose to be.

And even if the mother makes a poor choice, that does not absolve the man who chose to put his sperm inside her, from fulfilling his obligations TO THE CHILD HE CREATED.

I fully believe that this happens because it is acceptable for men to act in this way in this country. It is far more rare in Scandinavian countries. Plus of course the CMS more than facilitates this behaviour from the dads. The first step has to be to establish a fully functioning, state backed process for ensuring that fathers at least have to pay the money that their children are entitled to. Societal change in attitudes would be much more difficult to achieve.

no, not this. No one is forced to impregnate anyone. And even if they aren't fully on board, once a child is created, they have a moral and legal responsibility to at least financially provide for that child.

Because they decide to.
Married, had children (he even wanted more), separated, kept up an interest for some time and now has completely disappeared. Doesn't contact, respond to any communication even from his own children, changed address, stopped paying maintenance.
No contact whatsoever. Completely absent and completely his choice.

Also how do they end up with new partners and the women are not put off by this fact!

They do - but, how many times must it be said, we are not talking about what men should do but what they actually do and why they do it.

Because they can. Because we have a society where parenting is considered women's work. And because they are allowed to get away with it. Society is very kind to men.

I think it's the cultural norm. It's considered acceptable. You could say that it isn't because if you ask someone directly whether it's fine for a dad to walk away from their child, they would say absolutely not.

But in practice, mothers are considered responsible for their children while fathers are not. So somehow mothers carry the blame for fathers leaving rather than the father himself.

If you look at cultural narratives and attitudes towards single mothers, most people judge the mother for not having ensured that she was in a stable enough situation before either having sex or for not having an abortion (depending on their views on abortion basically). The father is not even really considered, as though he was just incidental or his decision to leave is totally obvious/natural and she should have factored it in or chosen better. Look at the thread from a couple of days ago called "Would you judge a mum who has 4 children by 4 dads?" - So many assumptions about the mother's past, mental state, stability, propensity to pick shit men etc. Hardly any answers said "I'd judge the dads for leaving and wouldn't judge the parent who stayed behind and raised the children". Some of the answers (trying to be clever I assume) said they would judge the fathers of the later children!! Because apparently getting involved with such an immoral and flighty woman is such a terrible idea 🙄

Nobody asks a working dad how he will juggle work and parenthood. Nobody asks him "Who is looking after the kids?" when he is on a business trip. School requests for attendance to things during the day are generally addressed to mothers. Mothers are constantly judged and found deficient whereas fathers are applauded for the bare minimum. There have been entire sitcoms and comedy films based on the idea that a baby/toddler left in the care of men is a funny situation that they are bound to get wrong. Could you imagine this with the genders reversed? The joke would not work.

Look at the cultural narrative and attitude towards single fathers. Most people assume that the mother is dead or utterly feckless. Single fathers are lauded as heroes (while single mothers are irresponsible). Stepfathers who "step in" to "raise another man's children" are lauded as heroes.

Many men who have walked away from their children pretend that the children do not exist, so that nobody judges them. If he does acknowledge that they exist he can claim that the mother "won't let him" see the children and the immediate assumption from most people is that she is awful and bitter, not that there must be something dangerous about him.

The ones who baffle me are those who can just walk away after a marriage breakdown, after having put in a good appearance of being an involved and loving parent over a number of years.

so well said, @BertieBotts

I'm one of those who did everything 'right' but about 18mo in to parenthood exDH was just like 'nah, this aint for me". He didnt want to do it, and he didnt want me doing ut either as it detracted attention from him. Up until then he had us all fooled!

@BertieBotts yes this!!! I have so many judgemental comments for allowing myself to be with an abusive man and end up as a single parent tut tut. And yet not one person has challenged why he was abusive or why he hasn't bothered with his children since he "won" his court case.