“We fail students by indulging their fragilities” - Libby Purves in the Times

[CruCru]

I read this thing by Libby Purves in the Times: [[We fail students by indulging their fragilities

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/5dbf29f2-857e-41ce-8c78-028a513ab8f9?shareToken=c41320dec7bfb802e039b5c8bc3b513f

I found it very interesting. “Whatever the failings of postwar stiffness - it had plenty - at least that generation was more prepared than most modern children for the shocking fact that once education’s over, the wide world really doesn’t care about your feelings. Rules and systems should prevent bullying, but preserving your comfort zone is of interest only to parents and faithful friends. As far as everyone else is concerned, it’s up to you to be useful.”

I remember at work being taken aback at how much harder work some of the new graduates were than when I started. I wonder, though, if part of that was that they’d had to do so much more to get the job. My A levels were respectable but my old university wouldn’t give me a place these days. So much is expected of young people.

The world is full of people who would now have a diagnosis but instead have learned to mask, to choose less stressful surroundings, to delegate or depend on others to do the organising for them. And others - it’s usually family and friends - respond with their own accommodations, like Uncle Reg’s regimented breakfast and newspaper at 6.30 am precisely, or Auntie Tess needing her nap in a darkened room after work. I know people with poor executive function who, well aware of their own limitations, happily allow their partners to organise their time for them.

I think the problems come when you attempt to codify all these variations in one systematic whole, and then shoehorn them into a largely unsympathetic and probably incompatible world of legal process and corporate motivations. There is a flexibility in normal human interaction that ‘Human Resources’ (note the dehumanising job title) just aren’t capable of, no matter how they spout about ‘diversity’. This whole ‘bringing your whole self to work’ is way more than most workplaces have bargained for - and IMHO a very bad idea.

I think this is an outdated view. The world needs to meet the needs of everyone, not just those who do so easily.

In an ideal world kids would experience just the right level of discomfort and challenge that builds their resilience and prepares them for the outside world.

Instead we are piling on the pressure through exams, parental expectations, social media etc. Unsurprisingly many can't cope and so parents, especially those with the resources to do so, swoop in to catch them. Rather than learning independence and resilience they learn to rely on adults as an emotional crutch. Many children are reaching adulthood without the confidence or ability to navigate life's challenges on their own which must make the world a scary place indeed.

Completely agree.
Those that think the world needs to meet all their needs make me laugh.
Yes it's a shame if you have (insert alphabet letters here) but you need to either adapt, overcome or accept it. We can't insist everything and everyone is brought down to the lowest common denominator in order to accommodate that. And anyone who thinks we should is really living in cloud cuckoo land.

We cant blame young people though, we all parented them. It’s perhaps a lesson not to take too much notice of the latest parenting fads, 10-20 years ago helicopter parenting was expected. A lot of these kids have been cosseted and not allowed to move without adult supervision. It’s no wonder some of them have no resilience.

I thought we’d moved on from the attitudes of the 1980s/90s but obvs not 😮

Lowest common denominator?

NHS will always have limited resources...what's spent on one thing can't be spent on another. I would love for good quality therapy and psychiatrists to be immediately available for suicidal or seriously unwell children and young people. Lots of people on this thread want more focus on diagnosis of ND and early support. In a mutual society where we basically share the NHS something has to give (not necessarily these 2 things but you get the picture). What or who gives?

Yep! It’s deliberate surely? To make help as hard as possible to access!
Most likely. There are huge problems in most areas when it comes to getting assessment. It's awful.

Then add in some of the questionable practices of some private companies who offer diagnostic services (not all before that kicks another issue up).

Then add in that some people struggle to get reasonable adjustments for their needs.

Then factor in a culture shift where instead of reasonable adjustments to help manage and level the playing field, there's a growing culture with some people that this means having a world that caters to their preferences rather than having reasonable adjustments to support their needs (and this gets mixed up with reasonable adjustments).

Then add in the behaviour of a group of people who co-opt the struggles of people with SEN and disabilities for themselves. This clogs the system and I suspect affects how people in general view adjustments for SEN and disability.

It's a very complicated mess and those who really need access to services and support miss out.

@paperfarm those two things are quite closely connected though. A child/family who don't get help earlier may turn into a family with a seriously distressed teenager.

Fair point. But also both either underfunded or oversubscribed. More to both means less to what?

Agree far too much pandering. I work in a school where numerous parents have caught on to the extra time benefit and pressured the school to give it -with absolutely no evidence from the teachers of need. If the board ever investigated properly the school would lose its status as an exam centre due to lack of evidence.

I can’t access the article. But from my experience as a uni lecturer a significant proportion of students are plagued by mental health problems. I’d say over a third of every cohort have a support plan for anxiety. Some of which have extreme issues such as needed to remove themselves for an hour and not talk to anyone during that hour during a regular meltdown. I’m not criticising btw but just saying for a lot it’s more than “just feeling” anxious.

my worry is that while we try to bend over backwards at uni to support them. They’re allowed to storm out of lectures having a meltdown, they spend hours talking to me as a personal tutor, they get extensions for all assignments, 33% extra time in exams, miss days and days of lectures (on a course with 100% mandatory attendance), but it all gets shrugged off…

…..but is this preparing them for the real world of work? Where they can’t have meltdowns and refuse to talk to anyone for hours, where they can’t storm off/not come in, where their boss won’t do 3 hour long unofficial counselling for them. And this isn’t all 18yos. It’s mature students as well. 🤷‍♀️

It's very troubling to read such lack of understanding and empathy for today's' young people

They have had everything on a plate you say? We had it all do much tougher in the 70s and 80s as kids?

Yes, maybe, in a way. Lots of today's young people got what they wanted but not what they needed.

Resilience is low, way too many kids have mental health problems, and instead of investigating WHY this is, Libby and many posters on here blame the kids....

This is a generation that grew up with social media and non-stop entertainment (phones, internet) and this clearly is having a huge and profound negative effect we have not fully come to understand yet.

I agree that too many young adults suffer mental health problems but I disagree that it is their own fault

Libby's mention of "discos" shows she is not at all in touch with the younger generation or has a clue about their lives

Well, call me a dreamer, but I'd suggest that if local authorities didn't routinely hire barristers to contest parents trying to ensure their DC get services they're legally entitled to, that would free up a large amount of cash...

If there are instances of young people being ‘overindulged’ and made more fragile (I don’t have kids or work with them so am not qualified to say whether this is happening or not) then in my view this is merely part of an over correction to the absolute shit show that went before it. Putting up and shutting up, ‘soldiering on’, the ‘stiff upper lip’ etc etc - all part of an economically fortunate but horrendously parented and emotionally damaged post- war generation imo. There is often a lot going on behind the ‘a little bit of struggle did me no harm’ attitude you see in these types of articles.

This generation of young people have lost a lot of independence compared to previous generations which can affect self-confidence and the progression into launching.
If your family don't have time and money to throw into extra curriculars, changes in schools (narrow curriculum, funfing, excessive workload and risk averse cultures) mean fewer opportunities to discover practical and alternative strengths beyond a select bunch of subjects.
Changes in safeguarding, DBS checks and the rise of "flexible" zero or minimal hour contracts mean teenagers don't have the opportunity to work so young. There are fewer localised opportunities that non can get themselves to. Reduced work experience. At 15 in the 90s, many school friends got "Saturday jobs" from their work experience placement and many workplaces used it as a way to trial casual staff and it was a springboard into further job opportuntities.

Children have less free, unstructured time to explore ideas, play creatively and socialise in person. School catchments are bigger. The world is percieved to be too dangerous to let children out into. They spend more time on technology and remote socialising which can have its own toxic problems.

OFSTED has turned schools into high-pressured places. Grades are the focus through school life, not the summary of what was learned. The curriculum is taught to the test, not exploring a breadth of ideas. There are mocks, mocks and mocks to fill the spreadsheets to satisfy OFSTED. Sucess at GCSEs, A-Levels and getting into a decent uni are presented as The Route for life. It's harder to leave the academic path "early" and find decent work to live on. Many graduates just don't get broad experiences to shape them into happy, confident and productive employees.

If a significant proportion of a generation are struggling, you have to ask what factors are shaping them.

I agree. And with respect to previous posters, at some point you do have to get on with it to get the job done. I have no problem with meeting reasonable adjustments but they are there to support the job getting done not to avoid doing the work. I suspect the issues that irritate everyone are those who use reasonable adjustments to avoid work.

I think there also needs to be acknowledgement that excessive adjustments( like needing unofficial 3 hour counselling sessions) requires a significant emotional ask of the supporting person. This adds to their stress and eats into their time to get the job done. That isn’t fair or just. What happens when 2 people with significant needs work together? - who is responsible for support who?

schools are over stretched , yes they should be better in a lot of cases but aren’t, it’s unfair to lay all of this at schools. In the case of most nt young adults without resilience I’m afraid we need to look at the parenting styles and societal expectations of the last 20years.

Those that think the world needs to meet all their needs make me laugh.
Yes it's a shame if you have (insert alphabet letters here) but you need to either adapt, overcome or accept it. We can't insist everything and everyone is brought down to the lowest common denominator in order to accommodate that. And anyone who thinks we should is really living in cloud cuckoo land.

alwaysmovingforwards what's missing here is if they can't 'adapt, overcome or accept it' they might die, or be an even greater burden on society with extreme ill health, both physical and mental.

'Alphabet letters' is so, so offensive to those with diagnoses. Some of those people, with possibly just small adjustments and a little understanding, can and probably will contribute more to society than you ever could.

My disabled child is not your 'lowest common denominator' and your lack of intelligence is betrayed by your narrow understanding of disability

You can only get extra time if you are assessed for it. It’s not handed out. And the tests are quite harsh.

But if a third of students are deemed as needing it that in itself is a problem, we can’t pretend it isn’t.

@BogRollBOGOF I agree with all of that- I am actually very glad that my son who has well controlled ADHD and who never asks for any leeway because of it actually was in a house share (his choice) the week before his 18th birthday and started a very good apprenticeship at the week he was17. He is now 25, decent job living in a nice rented flat in a good bit of London with his girlfriend and 1other - he works hard, drives and can work equally well 5 days a week on client site or at home. I honestly think cracking on at 17 paying bills and turning up every day has helped him with his mental health as it gave him enforced structure

Not true if your school has a spineless head and senco dept actively encouraging parents to demand it. There are no ‘assessments ‘ required for extra time. Yes there should be a paperwork trail but unless the exam board investigates it can be fudged.

There are assessments. My son did one. And l used to be a secondary school teacher. How else do they test short term recall or processing issues?

I think she has a point. I grew up with people who did comfort you when something happened but after a very short while, there would be an expectation that you'd pull yourself together and get on with it. "Yes, you have been dealt a bad hand. Now deal with it."

I have had people act superior toward me because I can be a bit sensitive but when something bad actually happens I can tell that I handle it better than those people. (Come to think about it most of those people have totally crumbled when faced with things that weren't half as bad as the things they criticized me for being "sensitive" about)