If you're not voting Labour because of Palestine or gender nonsense ...

[CheesyJacketPotato]

Are you really ok with having another Tory government? Because in all honesty that is what you'll get.

We get a tory party in EVERYTHING but name whichever way. Its what the last 8 years have been about. The tories are inside the labour party.

@CruCru "It is up to Labour to win over voters - not for voters to have to justify why they don’t vote the “correct” way. "
Well, it isn't actually. It's up to people to look at the facts and decide what party they think will be better for the country. It's a bit daft, frankly, to choose your next government based on how some of their supporters represent themselves. That's like me saying I'll vote Tory because I have a massive crush on Rory Stewart.

curlew

poster said labour party not supporters

i understood that to mean that the labour party should be persuading people that they should be in power

Same

I’d take the Tory party in everything but name over UKIP in everything but name tbh.

I'd vote Labour if Keir Starmer wasn't the leader. With him there, not a chance.

The Tories have done a great job down in Cornwall haven't they???

I vote for policies, not a particular leader, unless you live in his area... and atm Lab haven't released their manifesto.

Everyone not wanting to vote labour/kier because they’re not quite what you wanted. You do realise that this is how Brexit happened? Too many people assumed that everyone else would vote. Please only don’t vote labour (if they are the closest contender in your district) if you actually want another conservative term.

Facts? This is politics. Realistically, the Labour Party needs to convince middle aged people in the Home Counties that they’ll do a better job - not just the people who would always vote Labour.

For those who are interested, here is a summary of what Labour intends to do, should they be elected.

https://labourlist.org/2023/10/labour-national-policy-forum-final-document-summary-policy-manifesto-party-conference/?amp

There are a lot of aims but the list doesn’t set out how they intend to achieve those aims. I am willing to believe that the larger document (which has been shared internally within the Labour Party) may have this.

A couple of things that jumped out at me - “Reform the UK tax system” has two bullet points about removing tax loopholes for private schools and “Protect and improve UK finance” has unlock the £3 trillion of capital stored in UK pension funds to invest more in innovative British businesses, jobs and infrastructure”.

I know about the private school tax loophole but the second point rather gives me the willies. Pension scheme funds are invested for the financial well-being of future and current pensioners - it is up to the trustees of pension schemes to choose how the money is invested, not the government.

The Autumn Statement comes out on Wednesday so I’ll have to see what the Tories plan to do then.

I dunno, I don't live there.

@CruCru You have inadvertently misrepresented that Labour List article, as it says:

"It is far from clear how much of the document will make the campaign manifesto, however. Shadow Health Secretary Wes Streeting recently said there will be a “high bar” for existing Labour policies to reach the manifesto, suggesting they must be credible, deliverable and make a “real difference to people’s lives”

No one from Labour has said they will make investment decisions for Pension Funds, as Reeves has said, the idea is to make it more attractive for pension fund trustees to invest in UK Plc rather than overseas.

Fair enough. I think it was the use of the word "unlock" that I didn't like.

I am sure that the whole list won't make it into the manifesto - it's extremely long. It will be interesting to see what does go in there.

Parents risk arrest for not affirming | Mumsnet

I think that this shows that no matter which party is in gender ideology has captured the institutions.

Yes, I'm okay with it.

The private school policy alone is sufficient for me to not consider voting Labour under any circumstances.

It is the most poorly thought out policy that is aimed at the ill-informed electorate who don't understand the first thing about the cost/benefit analysis of the proposal.

It would be hard to think of a policy more geared towards the politics of envy than that.

Exactly. It’s so bad

It’s because funds are low and they won’t have much more than negative impact stuff that hits a certain note

If you're looking for an answer rather than a validated rant, I'll try my best.

It depends on what a persons main issue is, for them, in their mind. And what they're willing to compromise on to achieve that.

So for example, someone concerned with women's right to women only spaces, the protection of language and sports etc. may feel that this is so important to them that they are willing to accept a worse deal for certain vulnerable groups, and reluctantly vote with the party that reflects their views on gender. Likewise, those with strong ceasefire (read surrender to Hamas) views might feel that this outweighs the benefits of a Labour government.

Fundamentally, I think I agree with you (albeit I doubt if I'm quite as anti-Tory as you) if a person feels that a 100% of a party has got absolutely everything right and 100% reflect all of their opinions, they're either very indoctrinated and entrenched, or are a one person party where they are the founder and leader. In the end, voters generally should vote in accordance with what party is closest to their values and whos manifesto seems correct for the time. But there will be a fair chunk of people that will be so hung up on one issue, they'll ignore the wider picture.

This question gets asked a lot but i never see an answer (does not mean its not answered)

if some one believes that a particular party will be detrimental to gay rights is it ok to not vote for them…even though that would make you a single issues voter

or anti Semitic or racist

@Charlie2121 "It would be hard to think of a policy more geared towards the politics of envy than that."

Nothing to do with the politics of envy. Just not wanting organisations that don't fulfil a charitable function getting benefits intended for organisations that do fulfil such a function.

Tell me why as a woman I should vote for a party that puts men’s feelings above women’s rights to dignity, equality and safety .

believe he said that 99% of women do not have a penis, which is factually correct

Erm...so you think 1% of women have a penis?

Oh dear.

Il be voting Tory probably - the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

Starmer is basically a Tory. He’s politically indistinguishable from Cameron’s Tory government.

The gender stuff came from the USA and was swallowed wholesale by our institutions via Stonewall. It’s silly to blame the Conservatives.

@boudiccathecat "Tell me why as a woman I should vote for a party that puts men’s feelings above women’s rights to dignity, equality and safety "

I can't. However I also can't vote for a party that seriously thinks transporting vulnerable people to Rwanda is acceptable. It's a shitshow.

I care more about women’s rights.

What about the rights of women to be able to access safe maternity services? doesn't that matter to you?