I’ve made the biggest mistake today with School and my DD will pay for it

[Year5For3days]

DD is 9, Year 5.

Going on residential trip for 3 days at the end of November with School.

Had a meeting about it today to discuss some minor adjustments we’re talking small things like sleeping arrangements and giving of medication we’re not talking huge issues or things that can’t be overcome which makes me feel even worse. I’ve had a bad feeling about it since it was announced. I don’t know why; DD goes away with her dad (my ex-husband) and Scouts (Cubs) all the time and I never feel weird or strange about it. Scouts have never had a meeting with me about it I think that was why, but I know they’re different to school.

I told the Deputy Head running the trip how I felt and it descended into an argument between me and her. I didn’t mean for it to happen and I know she feels strongly about it, she’s run the trip every year since she started working at the school in 2013 (which is the year before DD was born ironically) and nothing has ever gone wrong, ever apparently. They’ve had 1 minor injury in all those years - a bumped head on the last day and the child still got on the bus and came back to school with them, and 1 bout of sickness where 2 kids were sent home, otherwise it’s always ran without a hitch.

But I have a really bad feeling about it, and I can’t describe it. It’s not about the money, I’d happily pay for DD to stay at school or keep her home for the 3 days. I couldn’t describe it and that’s why it turned into an argument I think, I’m keeping my stance that DD is not going, and the DHT wants her to go. Things got a bit heated; no-one swore or threw insults around but I did end up crying. And the DHT did say several times “I don’t get what the issue, I can’t see any reason (DDs name) can’t join us” and another teacher heard the discussion and came in to try to mediate unsuccessfully. Meeting ended with no resolution as it was end of the day and I had to join the queue to get DD and DHT had to be with her class.

I’m now worried that DD is going to be seen as strange or odd. DHT is DDs Maths teacher (but not class teacher) so I didn’t want to make things worse.

I don’t think anything can reassure me that it will be ok. I don’t know why I feel like this. DD went away with Cubs in the summer and that was wild camping for a week 3 hours’ drive away, not anything like the school trip which is staying in a hostel less than an hour’s drive from home still within the same county we live in and I had absolutely no qualms sending her with Cubs in fact I cheered after I’d dropped her. She was fine, worst thing that happened was she got stung by a nettle but she coped. And I don’t think that’s what I’m worried about.

How bad are things going to be for DD next week? Or will they be trying to get her to persuade me to send her? As I said I’m not concerned about the money.

Sorry, OP, but your feeling does sound pretty incomprehensible and slightly unhinged at the moment. Is your concern mainly her peers, the staff at school, the location, or the activities? How on earth are you explaining to your dd why you won’t let her go? Why is your dd not keen on the sleepover part? Is she worried about her peers finding out too much about her health condition, or is this her response to your anxiety?

Fwiw, I don’t think this will make the slightest difference to how the school treat or view your dd, but they will probably be a bit concerned about your welfare and, by extension, your dd’s, and may be wondering if they should be offering or seeking some kind of family support for you beyond the school trip.

But the reason for the meeting was to discuss the adjustments needed, which were agreed so in that situation of course they will have some persuasion that yes they can deal with things. Nothing unreasonable at all about that.

school staff don’t like to see children missing out when they do need to.

Gut feelings when you have diagnosed anxiety aren't reliable.

As a teacher, I would be very frustrated if I thought a child was going to miss out on a trip I thought would be beneficial, a good experience, and bonding for the class, no good concrete reason other than the parent had a bad feeling. I would feel VERY sad for the child. These overnight trips are such a good learning opportunity and you can’t replicate it outside school really.

As a mother with anxiety, I have been in your position of having a bad feeling about things my children are doing (like a residential) BUT I would not let my feelings about it stop my child going. My son went abroad with school for 2 nights and I was TERRIFIED but he had a great time and my fears were totally unfounded.

Exactly this!

I haven't read the full thread. But I'm with you, OP. If you've had a consistent, unshakable bad feeling about it, then follow that. As a culture, we tend to encourage others to ignore their own intuition. I once turned down a job for similar reasons.

It would be different if you refused to let your DD do any trips because of your anxiety, but you've already said she's been on plenty of trips away with groups without you, so she's had those type of experiences already.

Make your decision and then be firm but non-confrontational with the school about it.

OP you really really need to get a grip of your anxiety.
In this case your own personal struggles are impacting your daughters opportunities for fun, enjoyment, enrichment and learning independence from you.
She is in Y5- soon she will be doing more and more things away from you. She will be noticing more and more how you act, you’re rational or not so rational decisions. In just 2 years she will be off to secondary and that comes with far more emphasis on independence and on her own decision making. Trips, journeys, new friends and teachers unknown to you, abound.
Don’t teach her to make decisions based on anxiety.
There is nothing ‘wrong’ with this school trip. There are no premonitions. She has slept away from home it’s of times so the only reason she’s having any doubts will be due to your attitude around this trip which you may have passed down to her even if you haven’t meant to.
Really- you need to get a handle on this somehow or it will pass down and you will have a nightmare during secondary school- such a huge critical change for all kids.

I think you need to work out what your worry is. This sounds like your issue not your child’s. Don’t hold her back if she wants to go. Small schools need the children to go as it affects the cost if some don’t go.Maybe that’s why the dh behaved as she did. Not very professional or understanding on her part though. My child has additional needs I nearly didn’t let her go as I was worried about her. But she had a fab time. If that helps.

Your child won't be seen as strange, but she may feel as though she has missed out on something that all the other children have enjoyed together. Most children in Year 5 go on a residential and have a great time - my son is 15 now and he still remembers it as a fun experience. When the children come back afterwards they will be talking about it and have shared memories - it's fine if your daughter doesn't want to go or isn't bothered, but if she does want to and you say no, it's a real shame in my opinion.

I can understand why you thought the deputy head was arguing with you - sounds as though she was just frustrated with the conversation because she couldn't understand where you were coming from.

I think you should really try to think about whether your bad feeling about the trip has any logical, factual reason behind it.

If not, and it's just an irrational feeling fuelled by your anxieties, you need to let your daughter go on the school trip (if she wants to), and not make any further negative comments to her about it.

OP, you can't deny your daughter a trip because you have a "bad feeling" that isn't based on anything specific. I am a teacher, and quite honestly I'd listen to your concerns and try everything to help, but I'd be disappointed on your DD's behalf if she didn't go.

@Year5For3days woul you volunteering as a parent helper for the trip help you to relax about it?
Or what about talking to parents whose dc have done the trip in previous years?

Does dd want to go?

In all the therapy I have had learning how to question thoughts and the rationality of them has been one of the most important things. I still often fail but it’s a start.

i have PTSD from Ds early childhood illnesses. If I let my intrusive thoughts win he would never do anything at times!

Then trust your gut. I know how hard it is to distinguish between a gut feeling and anxiety but I think all things considered you should trust it on this occasion.

Imvho, the reason you do not want your dd to go is that you have had since year 4 to build your irrational fears up to boiling point. When your anxiety gets to a point that it is having an impact on your dd’s quality of life and anxiety levels too, you need to do something about it other than control the situation you have focused on to the detriment of other people.

Will this be your dd’s first residential trip with the school? How does she get on with her classmates?

“Gut feelings” and “a sixth sense” aren’t as woo as they sound, they are sometimes you picking up non verbal cues in communication. It might be that, while discussing medication etc, there were some subtle signs that made you think she wasn’t taking ABC on board?

@DumboHimalayan does the pope (or anyone else for that matter) know that God has returned to Earth in your form?

I am looking at absolutely the worse case scenario here, and I think that I am only putting into words the OP's worst fears, I certainly would hate to introduce that awful feeling of dread to someone who was not already feeling it!

Of course the worst that could happen would almost certainly be the death of a child - I believe that there are one or two things that are worse than death but I have no intention of going into those here, my brain doesn't even want to think about them.

If you are not at all spiritual (which seems strange in your case as you do speak like an all knowing God, or at least an all knowing entity) which I think you can't be, then you cannot have any understanding of the strength and depth of feelings that an "intuition" or "gut" feeling can have. So I am probably wasting both of our times, and my energy, in trying to explain to you that I was agreeing with the OP that if I were in her position, I would rather that I had a slightly disappointed DD and any other fall-out around the decision of refusing to let her DD go on this particular trip, to what could be a very wrong decision on her DD's behalf if she lets her go.

I do believe that some people have the grief gift of intuition, or gut feelings, about possible future happenings, and for those people, feelings of dread and foreboding are potentially there for very serious reasons. But ignoring those feelings does not in any way mean that if they are ignored, the person doing the ignoring will cause the dreaded outcome. The worst case scenario would happen anyway. Therefore, a person with certain 'psychic' abilities (for want of a better word and also whether they were aware of them previously or not) may be able to change what was going to happen, if they understand in time what is happening. However, if they don't, or can't, understand - and therefore don't do anything to change the future - they cannot cause something to happen that was not already going to happen, so it could not be their fault! We can only do our best with what knowledge is available and believable to us.

They won't treat your daughter any differently. If anything, they might treat her more kindly because they now know a bit more about her home life and might be watching for signs of your anxiety impacting her negatively so they can encourage her despite this.

As a teacher, I've often had kids in my class that I've felt protective towards because their parents had issues that impacted them. Not safeguarding or official concerns, but things like this where they're being held back or emotionally impacted.

My son did this trip. He has ADHD/ASD and had never been away from home before. I was very anxious that it would be too much, that he wouldn't cope. He had THE most fantastic time. School agreed that if he was struggling, I could go and pick him up. He was in fact so consumed with all the fantastic activities that he had the time of his life. Slept like a baby every night because he was simply worn on. He did things that I thought he would never try. It was amazing for his confidence.

Don't deny your child this opportunity because you feel weird about it. Your anxiety is rubbing off on her. I can understand the frustration from the school because your reaction is irrational. That is not to say that your feelings are not important but rationalising them is.

You should listen when you have a 'gut feeling' about things but you need to also use common sense. Having a 'gut feeling' about a guy you just met is very different to the 'gut feeling' that the OP has that her daughter is going to come to harm on a school trip.

How were things with your ex when you were together/now? Was there any abuse? Sometimes anxiety can be related to past experiences (even PTSD). Something about this situation is triggering you. I would try and reflect on this.

If the DHT was trying to rationally dismiss the obvious objections you had, it could be you felt anxious because you felt you were unable to have some control. The barriers you'd put up were being taken down and you felt exposed and stressed because then you felt you couldn't say no?

You are allowed to say no. But it seems a shame if your child wants to go.

You really need to work out what's worrying you.

I find it baffling that so many people don't understand what anxiety is.

Anxiety is when your sense of fear 'is out of control and not functioning correctly'. This is different to gut feeling and instinct.

It can be the result of trauma and in a way IS rational and a learned behaviour in order to protect yourself (and your family).

In this scenario you have to learn to understand when those feelings are valid and when it's your anxiety getting out of control.

The key bit for me, is you need to be able to verbalise what that is about in order for it to meet the criteria of valid. That could be 'I don't trust X because they have done Y which has made me feel uncomfortable.' That might still be something very minor or seemingly trivial.

In this case the OP can't verbalise anything. She has an expression of feeling under pressure from the teacher but that comes AFTER the meeting where she can't verbalise this. Not before. And there are legitimate reasons why the teacher would feel frustrated and concerned about the daughter because she cares not because she has nefarious reasons precisely because of the OPs anxiety being out of control.

That means she really needs to examine how and why this is happening. What is triggering her anxiety? It could be that it represents her daughter getting older in a way that cubs hasn't. It could be because it's more formal. It could be because the OP has other things going on in her life.

Gut feelings have a place. But you have to understand them and why there is a problem. Because it's about the rationalisation process v the out of control irrationality of anxiety.

I've talked many times about my own anxiety issues on MN. It's not a thing that I have no awareness of.

The OP has wound me up and angered me because it's affecting her daughter so negatively. And the OP still has failed to articulate anything meaningful. It's anxiety out of control not a gut feeling thing. And that's harmful. I can't believe how many people are minimising that and normalising it when the OPs anxiety response isn't within the boundaries of healthy. It's really concerning.

But then OP got upset and the teacher kept going to the point someone else intervened. That shows how problematic it was. Unacceptable from the teacher tbh

I had a mum like you OP. I missed out on many things and I used to say I didn't want to do them because I didn't want to upset my mum. It made me into an anxious adult, and even now, in my 50s, I have to work hard to overcome it. The ironic thing is that the tragedies that have happened to me, eg a parent being killed, weren't things I could have predicted or felt anxious about.

Let your daughter go. Try and rationalise your fears. I remember once speaking to a doctor about my fear of flying and he said 'when you're in the airport look around at all the hundreds of people. They're all about to get on a plane. And they'll all get off at the other end. And there will be more people here tomorrow, and in other airports. Thousands of them. They are not afraid so why should you be?'

Please don't make your daughter into an anxious adult. She will be fine.

@Baffledandalarmed I wonder if the description of the ‘argument’ is heightened by the OP’s anxiety.