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Original poster

Really concerned about incident at nursery

224 replies

EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:38

Hello, I posted a thread a few weeks ago about DD (nearly 4) and her poor behaviour at nursery. I went in and met them, and we agreed some behaviour management strategies. Her behaviour at home is much better than it was a few months ago after a difficult start to the year for our family (bereavement, inquest into my DF's death, redundancy and more...). We've been working hard on emotional regulation.

DD was misbehaving and hitting/pushing other children - I am not excusing this, I continue to make clear our expectations of her behaviour and have spoken to her about this. However, the nursery decided to punish her by removing the Halloween dress my husband allowed her to wear to nursery that day... And she had no top underneath. I have heard 2 different stories about whether she was immediately dressed in her spare clothes or was going around topless. She did have her leggings on.

I'm really unhappy- I don't want her hitting others, but this seems humiliating and not a good message to her from a safeguarding perspective. I have told nursery I never want this to happen again, and have rung the HV for advice, who was also concerned. What would you do? I'm about to start a new job. Do I take her out of the nursery and keep her at home?

OP posts:
Dinoswearunderpants · 07/11/2023 14:40

Without knowing whether she had a top on underneath, I think you're jumping the gun a bit.

You also might want to educate your husband on dressing your child. Just a dress on in autumn isn't good. At least a vest should have been worn too.

Original poster
EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:41

I know there was no top underneath. And yes, she should have had a vest on. She went to nursery with her fleece on and her coat on top.

OP posts:
Original poster
EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:42

And DH has been spoken to about what he dressed her in, but that's not really the point. They stripped her as a punishment.

OP posts:
Dinoswearunderpants · 07/11/2023 14:45

They removed her fancy dress costume as a result of her behaviour. That seems like a fair punishment. It's as simple as removing a toy from her.

As I said, you're making assumptions without knowing all the facts. I suggest you speak to the nursery to find out what exactly happened.

FusionChefGeoff · 07/11/2023 14:45

Using what someone is wearing as a punishment is very odd. And I say 'punishment' but really they should be using consequences that relate to the behaviour. Or that are clearly communicated to children in an age appropriate manner about behaviour charts / clouds / calm down corner etc or whatever their policy is.

Removing her dress is a very random reaction and yes, I agree raises some eyebrows here for safeguarding. Not to mention the message you are giving "if you're naughty it's ok for other people to take your clothes off"!!!

Tonia16 · 07/11/2023 14:46

They didn't 'strip' her. She may have been dressed in her spare clothes, and she was wearing leggings. All they did was make her change out of the Halloween dress.

FusionChefGeoff · 07/11/2023 14:46

It's not removing a toy!!! It's taking her clothes off. Unless she was using the dress to hurt people / they were arguing about sharing the dress etc it's not fair at all

Tonia16 · 07/11/2023 14:47

FusionChefGeoff · 07/11/2023 14:45

Using what someone is wearing as a punishment is very odd. And I say 'punishment' but really they should be using consequences that relate to the behaviour. Or that are clearly communicated to children in an age appropriate manner about behaviour charts / clouds / calm down corner etc or whatever their policy is.

Removing her dress is a very random reaction and yes, I agree raises some eyebrows here for safeguarding. Not to mention the message you are giving "if you're naughty it's ok for other people to take your clothes off"!!!

Where is the safeguarding problem here?

Original poster
EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:47

It's totally out of the range of consequences we had discussed for poor behaviour apart from anything else, so purely from that perspective I'm not happy. The fact I've heard 2 different versions of what took place also concerns me.

OP posts:
Teeheehee1579 · 07/11/2023 14:48

I think stripped is a bit strong - they took her Halloween costume off her - presumably bad behaviour means you cannot join in with the Halloween fun and then likely put another top on her almost immediately afterwards (you say accounts vary - between whom - your toddler?). In all honesty I doubt they would be at all bothered if you took her out but I really don’t think this is a safeguarding issue. They undress and redress children all the time if they are wet, muddy, poo up the back etc. I find it very hard to believe she was stripped naked on the top and left there as a punishment

Original poster
EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:48

It gives the message that you can be punished for poor behaviour by removing your clothes? Seems a pretty big safeguarding red flag to me @Tonia16

OP posts:
cantgetajob · 07/11/2023 14:48

What connection is there between an item of clothing and behaviour? None. What a ridiculous’punishment’ . She won’t have even understood and has had the humiliation of being undressed?

A good nursery would have explained to her why pushing was wrong and removed her from the triggers or what was overstimulating her not undressed her

Id be looking for a new nursery

Original poster
EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:49

Accounts vary from 2 different members of staff- DD has just said it's because she behaved badly. One keyworker said she was walking around topless, the manager said she was changed immediately.

OP posts:
SummerInSun · 07/11/2023 14:50

I'm not sure from your post if your concern is that you think punishing her by not letting her Halloween costume is too extreme, or if you are concerned by a 3 year old girl not having a shirt on for a while.

If the first one, hard to say without knowing the context. Seems a bit mean not to let her participate in Halloween but on the other hand maybe it was a good incentive in a "you can wear it again when you start to behave" kind of way.

If your concern is that she didn't have a top on for a while, I think that's ridiculous. She is 3, there is nothing sexual about it. If she had drenched herself doing water play, or spilled soup all over her top at lunch, or paint at art time, and the staff had taken her wet top off immediately and it had taken a while to find a new top, would you mind?

SleepingStandingUp · 07/11/2023 14:50

Was it a fancy dress day op so all the other kids were in dress up and she wasn't as a punishment? Or was it a normal clothes day but she happened to be in a Halloween dress?

LegendsBeyond · 07/11/2023 14:50

Seems fair to me. Move her to another nursery if you don’t like it. Your DD sounds challenging, so best to work together with staff to help her.

AnneLovesGilbert · 07/11/2023 14:51

That’s appalling. The punishment has no relationship to the behaviour. I’d be very angry.

Original poster
EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:51

@SummerInSun as a survivor of CSA, I do not like the message that a child can have their clothes removed, publicly, as a punishment. Obviously if she was wet that's different- it's in the intention.

OP posts:
Original poster
EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:52

@SleepingStandingUp it was a normal day and she was wearing it as her outfit for that day - it's just a cat dress. My DH won't be sending her in a costume again 🥴

OP posts:
SleepingStandingUp · 07/11/2023 14:53

If it was dress up day, I could understand someone saying she had to not be in dress up now, so taking her to the changing area to change.

If she was just in those clothes randomly, I think it's wrong to take it off. Would they have taken a Peppa pig top off and made her wear a plain one? Or removed her Peter Rabbit leggings? Using clothes as a punishment is odd at best.

Re was she taken away and reclothed or was she forced to remove her dress on the middle of the room and left half dressed (totally irrelevant re vest, you didn't dress her planning on her being stripped as a punishment) I think you need to push for a declarative answer. Is there CCTV?

SummerInSun · 07/11/2023 14:54

You say it's "humiliating" not to have a top on?!? At age 3? Most 3 year olds would happily run around naked at that age without giving a thought to who sees them. Please come teach your DD that her body is something to be ashamed of!

Original poster
EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:54

@LegendsBeyond I am working with the staff, every day. I want things to be better for her, and for the other children to be safe. She is challenging- they have asked the council SENCO to come in. However, whatever she does, she doesn't deserve to be subjected to behaviour designed to humiliate her.

OP posts:
Original poster
EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:55

@SummerInSun I am teaching her to love her body. However, I don't think removing a child's clothes is a suitable punishment. Would this be ok at primary school? No. It's not ok just because she's 3!

OP posts:
Tonia16 · 07/11/2023 14:55

EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:48

It gives the message that you can be punished for poor behaviour by removing your clothes? Seems a pretty big safeguarding red flag to me @Tonia16

You are projecting your adult perception of this onto a toddler. They don't have the intellectual capacity to take an underlying message from an action. They might feel angry or upset, but won't make any implied connective message. Only adults do this.

And what do you mean by 'a red flag?' (Another recent buzz term). What harm do you think might follow?

Lindy2 · 07/11/2023 14:56

Removing clothes is not an appropriate sanction. How can a 4 year old understand the link between behaviour and their dress being taken off.

Do 4 year olds actually fully comprehend fancy dress? I doubt it. To most 4 year olds a Halloween dress would fall into the category of a party dress or special new outfit. Would they have taken off a new top and replaced it with old as a punishment?

I'd say the nursery has some seriously questionable strategies for helping a 4 year old manage behaviour. I'd move her OP. They simply don't have the skills to help your child appropriately.