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Original poster

Really concerned about incident at nursery

224 replies

EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:38

Hello, I posted a thread a few weeks ago about DD (nearly 4) and her poor behaviour at nursery. I went in and met them, and we agreed some behaviour management strategies. Her behaviour at home is much better than it was a few months ago after a difficult start to the year for our family (bereavement, inquest into my DF's death, redundancy and more...). We've been working hard on emotional regulation.

DD was misbehaving and hitting/pushing other children - I am not excusing this, I continue to make clear our expectations of her behaviour and have spoken to her about this. However, the nursery decided to punish her by removing the Halloween dress my husband allowed her to wear to nursery that day... And she had no top underneath. I have heard 2 different stories about whether she was immediately dressed in her spare clothes or was going around topless. She did have her leggings on.

I'm really unhappy- I don't want her hitting others, but this seems humiliating and not a good message to her from a safeguarding perspective. I have told nursery I never want this to happen again, and have rung the HV for advice, who was also concerned. What would you do? I'm about to start a new job. Do I take her out of the nursery and keep her at home?

OP posts:
lacyviolet · 07/11/2023 17:00

To those saying that a 3/4 year-old won't remember the 'punishment' or be humiliated, please know that this is not correct. Something similar happened to me at that age (punishment for not finishing my lunch) and it still comes back to me sometimes. It definitely had a lasting effect, and not in a good way.

OP I hope you get to the bottom of things. Sorry to hear that it may mean you have to give up your job.

Cheesecakefiend · 07/11/2023 17:00

It's very strange behaviour from supposedly educated adults. I would be querying their reasoning behind this form of punishment. I'm guessing they lost their temper and had a knee jerk reaction which is incredibly worrying for adults in charge of very young children.

Original poster
EvenLess · 07/11/2023 17:03

I called them to do handover (something we agreed, as we were previously doing it at the door in front of her and it was becoming really negative) and her keyworker just can't get the story straight on who was there and whose decision it was, other than it wasn't in front of the other children. She also said it was Dd's decision to take the dress off, which is different from before.

She obviously recognised it was wrong and apologised but trust is absolutely gone now. I left her in no uncertain terms on how inappropriate I found what happened, and that I am considering taking it further. Going to pick her up now - apparently she's been fine today but don't know if I believe that either!

OP posts:
Notts90 · 07/11/2023 17:03

I recently worked in a nursery. There's no way we would ever do what the OP has said.

I don't think YABU OP

junbean · 07/11/2023 17:03

They need to have a clearly established mode of handling behavior issues. There shouldn't be any surprises or creative ideas like stripping. Doesn't matter how old the child is or any other factors. Everyone needs to be on the same page with expectations and outcomes. Hopefully it was a one-time thing and they rectify it immediately.

Mariposista · 07/11/2023 17:07

ManateeFair · 07/11/2023 16:27

If they took her out of the room to change her from her Halloween costume into ordinary clothes, that's fine and a reasonable punishment. If she is behaving as badly as you suggest she is, then it's not unreasonable to punish her by not letting her join in a fun thing like a Halloween fancy dress day. That isn't 'punishing a child by stripping her in front of everyone'.

If they undressed her in front of all the other kids and/or had her wandering around in leggings with no top on, then that is obviously a very different thing, and a lot more problematic.

At the moment, it sounds like you don't really know what really happened, and have assumed that the worst case scenario must be the truth. But you don't know that's how it happened so you need to step back here and find out more before you decide whether to take this further.

Absolutely this

PixiePirate · 07/11/2023 17:07

I agree that it sounds like an unusual (and not particularly effective) punishment but you seem to be focusing on that and effectively excusing your child’s behaviour. SEN, family bereavement and redundancy are undoubtedly challenging circumstances but they’re not acceptable reasons for hurting someone else, whether you’re 30 or 3.

Springforward1 · 07/11/2023 17:08

Dredful!

Children absorb stressful situations in the home which can manifest in hitting out. Punishment by removing clothing, regardless if its fancy dress at halloween is not the answer.

Original poster
EvenLess · 07/11/2023 17:08

@PixiePirate I am not excusing her. I speak to her every time it happens, we have consequences at home. I am doing my best and want to work with childcare providers to ensure she is behaving well there. I know it's not ok for her to hit.

OP posts:
Crunchymum · 07/11/2023 17:11

Jellycats4life · 07/11/2023 16:29

She is not yet 4 @Crunchymum. Basically everyone on this thread has failed to read the OP properly and believes this child is older than she is.

This thread has also confirmed some of my thoughts that MN in general has some very extreme and draconian attitudes when it comes to punishment. So many people projecting beliefs that I’m sure didn’t apply to their own children when they were little.

The OP says nearly 4 so I was using a ballpark and I imagine she one of the older children in the nursery?

I was also in support of the OP when I said it was an unacceptable form of punishment?

Littlelucas · 07/11/2023 17:13

They removed her fancy dress costume as a result of her behaviour. That seems like a fair punishment

I don’t agree at all - I think it’s a bizarre punishment for a 3yo. If it comes to light that she didn’t have a top on I’d be livid and yes I’d remove her from the nursery.

grumpycow1 · 07/11/2023 17:13

I would remove her to a different nursery or childminder. My son loved school nursery plus childminder aged 3, we moved him from a private nursery.

Removing her clothes is not an appropriate consequence. I would report it to ofsted and leave a bad review once she is out of there.

Goldbar · 07/11/2023 17:13

PixiePirate · 07/11/2023 17:07

I agree that it sounds like an unusual (and not particularly effective) punishment but you seem to be focusing on that and effectively excusing your child’s behaviour. SEN, family bereavement and redundancy are undoubtedly challenging circumstances but they’re not acceptable reasons for hurting someone else, whether you’re 30 or 3.

It is not unusual for children of this age to misbehave and for nursery and parents to have to work together to find a solution and apply a consistent approach. That's probably why the OP isn't focusing on this.

It is unusual (and downright inappropriate) to remove clothing as a punishment. That's probably why this is the focus of the OP's post.

MelsMoneyTree · 07/11/2023 17:14

I'd remove her from the nursery if you can.
It's not a suitable punishment at all. You're correct about the poor safeguarding messaging. It's also such a poor punishment that it speaks to them being frustrated and unsure how to implement consequences. You, and more importantly your DD, need consistency in approach. I wouldn't have faith in their judgement going forward. (And that's without even touching on the fact she might have been topless for a while).

ludocris · 07/11/2023 17:14

I agree OP, I would not be happy with this. It may be very difficult to gauge whether she was put in another top straight away or whether she walked around topless for a while, but either way I don't think it's a reasonable punishment - in fact I'm not even sure that they should be 'punishing' her. A time out is surely the most appropriate way to deal with difficult behaviour.

And if she was topless for a while, I would concur that it's just not appropriate and gives the wrong messages, even if she is 'only 3'.

Myfabby · 07/11/2023 17:16

Crunchymum · 07/11/2023 17:11

The OP says nearly 4 so I was using a ballpark and I imagine she one of the older children in the nursery?

I was also in support of the OP when I said it was an unacceptable form of punishment?

Show quote history

Found the basically everyone has failed to read as though she was the sole master of comprehension so patronising.🙄

Nearly- very close to; almost.

2/3/4- a child shouldn't be hitting and neither should an appropriate punishment be taking off fancy dress.

viques · 07/11/2023 17:17

EvenLess · 07/11/2023 15:09

Thank you- I think my past experiences have led me to wonder if I am overreacting, but I think my instincts are right on this one. I don't think there are any other nurseries around here with space atm, so I'm thinking I'm going to have to turn this job down and go back to being a SAHM until next year. I really don't want to 😢 but I've totally lost trust in them now.

Before you do that, think about how they have being helping her to regulate her behaviour by putting in strategies so that home and nursery are providing a united front with consistent expectations, you say yourself there has been improvement. I think it could be a backwards step to take her out of nursery, and yet another change in her life. She is benefitting by seeing other childrens more appropriate behaviour and by being with adults who ( apart from their incident) have been giving the same messages about expectations. Please consider your child’s development in the long term and make sure you are not making a knee jerk response by pulling her out of nursery and all the benefits it provides in terms of wider social development, language skills, physical challenges etc etc.

For what it is worth I think removing the costume was a pretty ridiculous punishment and I would be asking the nursery manager to justify the staff members actions as it seems a pointless punishment, and not one which a child would be able to relate to meaningfully . I would ask the manager to ensure that the worker concerned was made aware of more appropriate sanctions for both your child and any others.

I don’t think the ‘ running about topless ‘ is something to fight a battle about, I realise that your own history affects your feelings, but you could just as easily be angry with your OH for not putting a vest or t shirt on her in the first place. I wasn’t there, of course, nor were you, but I can quite imagine a defiant little child wriggling free from a staff member and running off half way through a change, it could honestly be as innocent an incident as that.

AngelAurora · 07/11/2023 17:17

EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:42

And DH has been spoken to about what he dressed her in, but that's not really the point. They stripped her as a punishment.

So you are excusing her behaviour?
Of course she would not of been walking round topless, YABU, she should not be rewarded for her bad behaviour.

LimePi · 07/11/2023 17:18

Sorry this strategy to manage poor behaviour is nuts. I would look for a different nursery

amispeakingintongues · 07/11/2023 17:21

Sounds like a stupid punishment OP, get her out of there.

ludocris · 07/11/2023 17:21

@AngelAurora you might win the most tone deaf response of the thread.

IfYouDontAsk · 07/11/2023 17:22

PixiePirate · 07/11/2023 17:07

I agree that it sounds like an unusual (and not particularly effective) punishment but you seem to be focusing on that and effectively excusing your child’s behaviour. SEN, family bereavement and redundancy are undoubtedly challenging circumstances but they’re not acceptable reasons for hurting someone else, whether you’re 30 or 3.

Absolutely nothing in OP’s posts suggests that she’s minimising her daughter’s behaviour.

madeleine85 · 07/11/2023 17:23

I follow a behaviour toddler account (big little feelings), and they always say that consequences for bad behaviour always have to be linked to the bad behaviour itself. I.e. "you're fighting over a train, i'm going to put it up high and we can try again tomorrow". Your nursery's approach sounds more punishment than correctional, and won't fix the issue if your child is only two. They should know this. I usually side with the schools in these posts, but I really think they did something wrong here. As a mum to a toddler who did hit/bite between 2-3, the issue stopped overnight when we moved her to an education based nursery at 3 vs the play based one before. Maybe it was age, but also I think it was having a focus that helped. We tried all the time outs, talking, the sitting down in a quiet place, the reading books about hitting, reading the colour monster to discuss emotions. I honestly am not sure any of it worked until we changed the place she was going to daycare.

thirdfiddle · 07/11/2023 17:23

I really don't think she should have had a vest on is relevant, or even true. Some kids like vests, some don't. With a fleece layer on the top, a vest wasn't at all necessary for warmth. You don't expect them to be changing aged 3-4, not like a potty training toddler or a baby who gets food all over their outfit on a regular basis.

Wetblanket78 · 07/11/2023 17:25

If she's been punished in nursery she shouldn't be punished again at home. That's punishing her twice. Nursery wouldn't punish her for behaviour at home.