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Original poster

Really concerned about incident at nursery

224 replies

EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:38

Hello, I posted a thread a few weeks ago about DD (nearly 4) and her poor behaviour at nursery. I went in and met them, and we agreed some behaviour management strategies. Her behaviour at home is much better than it was a few months ago after a difficult start to the year for our family (bereavement, inquest into my DF's death, redundancy and more...). We've been working hard on emotional regulation.

DD was misbehaving and hitting/pushing other children - I am not excusing this, I continue to make clear our expectations of her behaviour and have spoken to her about this. However, the nursery decided to punish her by removing the Halloween dress my husband allowed her to wear to nursery that day... And she had no top underneath. I have heard 2 different stories about whether she was immediately dressed in her spare clothes or was going around topless. She did have her leggings on.

I'm really unhappy- I don't want her hitting others, but this seems humiliating and not a good message to her from a safeguarding perspective. I have told nursery I never want this to happen again, and have rung the HV for advice, who was also concerned. What would you do? I'm about to start a new job. Do I take her out of the nursery and keep her at home?

OP posts:
Jellycats4life · 07/11/2023 15:54

Well I for one think it’s a cruel and unusual punishment.

I like to believe airy-fairy things like behaviour is communication, and kids do well if they can. This little girl is still 3, and isn’t lashing out because she’s bad.

I really think that a lot of nurseries and preschools have some poor attitudes and strategies when it comes to dealing with negative behaviours. Stripping a little girl out of her Halloween dress is just vindictive.

To be honest, it sounds like it could have been done in a fit of temper by the member of staff because it seems totally irrational. The only way I can see it happening is if they snapped and went "right! dress off now!"

Totally agree @All2Well

Tobacco · 07/11/2023 15:55

EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:49

Accounts vary from 2 different members of staff- DD has just said it's because she behaved badly. One keyworker said she was walking around topless, the manager said she was changed immediately.

The keyworker would have no motivation to lie about her walking round topless, so that story is more likely to be true. I agree it's not an appropriate punishment

KitCatKitty · 07/11/2023 15:56

SummerInSun · 07/11/2023 14:54

You say it's "humiliating" not to have a top on?!? At age 3? Most 3 year olds would happily run around naked at that age without giving a thought to who sees them. Please come teach your DD that her body is something to be ashamed of!

At home or in a positive environment sure. My three year old would be mortified if her teacher removed her clothes as a punishment when all her peers were fully dressed.

It sounds horrible OP. What a weird thing for them to do.

IfYouDontAsk · 07/11/2023 15:57

I’d ask the nursery to give you their account of what happened in an email. See what they’re prepared to put in writing.

As an aside, I hate it when survivors of abuse who raise concerns about the safeguarding of their children are given a pat on the head and told that their experiences are causing them to overreact. No, abuse survivors generally have a much more heightened awareness of safeguarding issues and inappropriate behaviour due to what they’ve been through.

Best of luck OP and I’m sorry that you’ve had such a difficult time of it this year.

PurpleIsTheColour · 07/11/2023 15:57

I agree with your concerns OP and had this been my DD I would have also tried to move her to another place. I totally disagree that removing the dress is the same as taking away her toy, and this looks to me like a case of a nursery worker losing control and using the wrong punishment on a very young child. Your DD is only 4 and I am sure that there are many other ways they can try and discipline a child that misbehaves-taking their costume is wrong and shouldn’t have been done. I really hope she wasn’t topless too either but I would tend to believe the key worker more than the nursery manager.

All2Well · 07/11/2023 15:59

And for those who still don't get it...

The problem is the message it sends children makes them more vulnerable to abusers.

It normalises having their clothing removed, being left partly naked, as part of a punishment.

They may feel that punishment is deserved and that adults are right to take their clothes off them, because they are bad and deserve it. That they don't have a right to bodily privacy and they have no power to stop being exposed in this way.

And then, if abuse happens, if their clothing is removed, they might not tell anyone. Because they associate it with being bad and naughty and they don't want to end up in more trouble or upset their loved ones. So they won't say anything because of the shame. And after all, it's normal isn't it? Miss Katie in Nursery took my dress off when I was naughty, so it must be ok if Mr Smith from Netball Club does it?

QueenOfThe20StoneAge · 07/11/2023 16:00

I'm really shocked at some of the responses on this thread.

Assuming the little girl didn't remove her costume voluntarily, an adult other than her parents put hands on her to exert a punishment. While I'm not implying any sexual motive, that was completely unnecessary and inappropriate.

I would be absolutely livid if this was my child. I cannot understand how anyone could think this was OK.

I hope you find better childcare OP.

momonpurpose · 07/11/2023 16:01

If the point of the punishment was she could not participate in the dress up they should have mentioned it before. Even a please send spare clothes if there is an incishe cannot be I'm costume. I'm not keen on undressing her publicly and I sure hope she wasn't topless. But at nearly 4 she is way to old to be hitting and I'd come down pretty hard on that. But not by undressing her in front of others

Cuttysark4321 · 07/11/2023 16:01

It doesn't matter what she was wearing, they removed her clothes as punishment. That's completely unacceptable and I think you're right to be upset OP. It doesn't matter if she was immediately dressed or not, if you're not comfortable with that kind of punishment that's entirely within your gift.

endofthelinefinally · 07/11/2023 16:02

Exactly @All2Well

Shakirasma · 07/11/2023 16:02

I am genuinely shocked by the number of posters who cannot see why this is a huge problem. It is a totally inappropriate thing to do, you are not overreacting at all OP, your reasoning is bang on.

I would move her, given all the safeguarding training the staff should have had the fact they chose to do this demonstrates a real lack of understanding and poor judgement

Kitchendisco1 · 07/11/2023 16:03

All2Well · 07/11/2023 15:03

Some crazy responses on here.

I've been teaching for 20 years.

There are no circumstances in which it's acceptable to remove a child's clothing as a punishment for bad behaviour.

None.

Especially if said child was left partly naked.

Nothing to do with sexualisation. It's humilating. It's cold. It is in no way meeting a child's needs, nor is it likely to result in an improvement in behaviour.

It's a BIZARRE punishment in this day and age, fancy dress costume or not.

If it was me, and it flipping well wouldn't be, I would expect a disciplinary over this. I wouldn't be surprised if I lost my job. The member of staff needs to be taken aside and spoken to, given a verbal warning at the very least. I would report this if it were a colleague, as it's poor practice and concerning.

If it's minimised, as a parent, I'd pull her out and send her elsewhere.

100% agree

ZuliKyanLarsFoz · 07/11/2023 16:03

I am in no way condoning what they did, I do feel that it was OTT. But the nursery my children go to have specifically requested that children do not attend in any form of fancy dress as they have noticed a significant decline in behaviour when they do and it makes their job much harder. Maybe there was an element of this to it, and they applied this to all children, not just your daughter.

Pammela2 · 07/11/2023 16:05

I am honestly shocked some people think this is ok for a nursery to do! Regardless of her behaviour at any time, this is inappropriate.

I would be very angry if my daughter came home and told me this. If there was any punishment that wasn’t linked to the behaviour, I’d be angry. Taking toys away that are the source of disagreements or taking the child out of the situation and having a discussion is appropriate. Selecting a random thing to ‘punish’ with isn’t.
Id do my best to find somewhere else for her to go but I would try my best to keep the job too.

Sorey you’re in such a stressful position:

Teapot32 · 07/11/2023 16:07

Dinoswearunderpants · 07/11/2023 14:45

They removed her fancy dress costume as a result of her behaviour. That seems like a fair punishment. It's as simple as removing a toy from her.

As I said, you're making assumptions without knowing all the facts. I suggest you speak to the nursery to find out what exactly happened.

It’s not a fair punishment- the punishment doesn’t relate to the thing the child did wrong. If a child is hitting or behaving badly then you talk to them about how their actions affect other people and come up with a reward system and focus on the positive behaviour. Giving a reaction to negative behaviour is still reinforcing it by giving it attention. They should also help the child to begin to understand their emotions. Taking their fancy dress costume away just goes to show that they are not capable of dealing with a situation and for me this would be a cause for concern as it will radiate throughout other aspects of the nursery no doubt

ChateauMargaux · 07/11/2023 16:08

Don't give up your job....

Have this conversation with nursery...

From a behavioural perspective, maybe you could suggest having a 3 way conveersation with the health visitor, nursery management and you / DH.

Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong · 07/11/2023 16:17

I work with this age group and have never seen this, at face value I wouldn't agree with this at all. But I think you need the full facts first so have a chat with the key worker. I've seen kids acting in character, for example, Superman jumping off a table and refusing to stop because he is Superman after all, and he needs to be told he if he doesn't stop he cannot be Superman any more. This might involve taking off his Superman costume for a while and realising he doesn't have a vest on, walking to the cupboard at the other end of the room to get a top from his bag, leaving the child topless for a minute then putting his clothes on and letting him play again. That's a very different scenario from a stripping type 'punishment' where the child was intentionally left half naked and excluded.

UnbeatenMum · 07/11/2023 16:17

No it's not appropriate. I'd guess the nursery worker acted in anger rather than this being a nursery strategy which is also concerning.

Snugglemonkey · 07/11/2023 16:18

EvenLess · 07/11/2023 14:42

And DH has been spoken to about what he dressed her in, but that's not really the point. They stripped her as a punishment.

That is completely unacceptable. Vest, top under etc, irrelevant. They stripped her as punishment. I would be contacting ofsted.

Luxell934 · 07/11/2023 16:18

Removing the Halloween dress for a punishment for bad behaviour is not good. I wouldn't like it. In all likelihood once they removed the dress she probably did walk around topless for bit as she probably refused to put the spare clothes on. I don't think the nursery would have purposely let her walk around with no top on though.

Snugglemonkey · 07/11/2023 16:19

Dinoswearunderpants · 07/11/2023 14:45

They removed her fancy dress costume as a result of her behaviour. That seems like a fair punishment. It's as simple as removing a toy from her.

As I said, you're making assumptions without knowing all the facts. I suggest you speak to the nursery to find out what exactly happened.

No it not at all like removing a toy!!!! No-one should undress a child unless there is a need to.

FriendsReunited · 07/11/2023 16:21

I would report that to Ofsted - they have an email where you can raise concerns - and change nursery. Stripping a child publicly as punishment is fucked up and likely to give everyone in the room issues. They obviously have zero safeguarding awareness.

WalkingRunning · 07/11/2023 16:22

Removing an item of clothing isn't an appropriate punishment. Removing a toy, time out or a phone call to parents makes much more sense. This wouldn't sit well with me, I wouldn't want her to think if she's bad people can remove her clothing. I'd discuss this with management and I'd also be likely to move her

TokyoSushi · 07/11/2023 16:23

It's a very odd and unusual punishment, they obviously aren't able to manage her very well. I'd be looking to move.

Dutchesss · 07/11/2023 16:23

If they genuinely removed her dress as a punishment - fancy dress or not is irrelevant, it's her clothing - then I would never send her back. It's wrong and your daughter should be made aware that it's wrong.

I can't believe people are minimising this because she's young.