The thing is... it's "men", though, isn't it. It's always men.

[Wilferton]

It's only really dawned on me in recent years. The conversations we all have about what "countries" or "states" are doing to eachother, the terrible crimes against women, animals and children, particularly the sexually motivated ones. It's men. We're not talking about what a particular state or country has done, we're talking about what men have done.

So now, when I click onto my news app, I find myself thinking "What have the men done now."

I feel sad that I can only really now see it this way. Actually sad for many reasons.

is it actually true about hunter/gatherer societies having lower levels of rape and murder? I recently listened to an audiobook (might have been Sapiens) that said that the evidence from human remains pointed to very high levels of violent death in early human, pre agricultural societies

I don't know where that fact is based but in most of Europe there is not a lot of evidence either way as we have very few skeletons to look at and ID trauma - in Britain and Ireland for example there are no Mesolithic (hunter-gatherer i.e. over ~6.5k years ago - varies depending on where you are) cemeteries and just a very few partial to just the odd bone skeletal remains of individuals surviving mostly in caves.

There are more Mesolithic burials from countries like Denmark and the Czech Republic but still only a tiny tiny percentage of the people who were living then - burial in the ground doesn't seem to have been the primary way to dispose of the dead.

Men are bigger and stronger and so they can. A subset of people who can, often do. When women find themselves in the position of being bigger and stronger and therefore able to perpetrate abuse on a more vulnerable group, a subset of women do. Women are the most profligate abusers of children. Not sexual abuse particularly but abuse nevertheless.

Does it not speak to the fact that there are more men in power than women? If we were to achieve gender equality, would there be an equal number of dreadful women in public life?

I have been really struck by a comment a poster made (sorry not to tag you) about (almost) all our laws being made by men and as a result what is a crime and their relative seriousness and sentences being a very male -centric view. (Amazingly) I hadn't really ever thought about this explicitly before but it makes total sense now I look at our laws and courts etc. Of course they are!

Wouldn't it be interesting to start afresh and see how different it would look if women identified what was a crime and how they ranked with respect to seriousness and sentences?

@Mytholmroyd I’m not sure if it was me, but I hold that view and think I haven’t voiced it on this thread… the problem is that laws and customs all shape who is allowed power and legislative power in particular, and they have been created by a majority of males, or people taking on male habits and behaviour, for centuries. If the ruling group are creating the rules about who gets to rule it’s a difficult situation for the subordinates to overcome.

Apparently we share more genetic material with chimps than chimps do with gorillas. If you want to work out why we operate as we do just look at the way chimp society works and all will become clear.

@CeciledeVolangesdeNouveau yes that is true - I read an article recently about how the system is now creating the many useless politicians we have who ar emore focussed on doing the job for personal advancement and financial gain after they finish being an MP rather than any vocation for public service - i.e. doing what is best for them personally rather than for the public/country/voter's and I think we are seeing that come to fruition with this current sorry crop.

One word. Suella.

Suella de Vil is vile - but I don’t think she’s raped, sexually assaulted, murdered, battered, bombed, gassed etc etc etc anyone, has she?

I hope you don't have sons then.

They also gave birth to the evil half of the population (copyright Mumsnet).

Males who have a strong and healthy relationship with one or both parents (and were brought up properly by said parents) are far more likely to turn out okay.

Males who have a strong and healthy relationship with one or both parents (and were brought up properly by said parents) are far more likely to turn out okay.

No such thing all men are evil, I blame the mothers for not raising them properly.

I blame the mothers for not raising them to come out with something more intelligent.

So agree with the earlier comments our society has been established and built by men so is the water we are swimming in. We see our laws and ways of behaving as the norm and “how things are” but they are just mens idea of how things should be and the value allocated. Hence the ignoring / devaluing of bringing up children and keeping a house run.

The covid enquiry encapsulates this - male dominated women’s voices not heard.

I remember the shock when I had dd1 and lived in London with no car and was weak from severe spd. The entire infrastructure has obviously been designed by people who had never used a buggy.

Not implicating them in war/violence/rape although I know there has been questionable behaviour about both but I was amazed (in a pretty depressed way) watching the news last night about US politics. A country with over 300 million people ...and the 2 people up for election are 2 white men, well past retirement age.

Not all woman.

This is getting to be a ridiculous straw
man fight. Just because women can be nasty doesn’t mean that global problems and fundamental flaws in systems are attributable to them. My mother has bullied me beyond belief and teachers and students at my all-girl school and later college have been pretty nasty. At no point did any of them start a war, rape someone or get elected to high political office. I’m leaving out violence from that because my mother has been violent, but that’s much rarer than male DV which results in two women dying a week just in this country.

If you look at the original question/statement...
It's men. We're not talking about what a particular state or country has done, we're talking about what men have done.
As women increasingly take a place in power they do seem to be much the same. But if you ignore the women who are violent or in misusing their power then your right it's only men.

Name me a single woman who has started a war recently, please. Name me one who sullied their country’s Covid response through corruption or quasi-fascist policies. Name me one who has invited a coup.

Yet when the choice was there to vote for a woman president a majority of (white) women voters voted for Trump over her.

Women are over half the voting block (in America/UK) they have the influence if they use it right.

Quasi fascist policies during Covid? Jacinda in NZ obviously. Or Sturgeon. Both power crazed lunatics who loved the limelight.

I think what gets forgotten is that being men are also at risk from other men as well. Aggressive men will take that out on anyone weaker than them. I've never been worried about being assaulted at a pub at closing time. All the men I know would be very cautious in that situation.

OK, sorry, I actually miswrote if that’s I thing, I wanted to write that the Covid response was sullied by corruption but that they put in place quasi fascist policies overall - the hostile environment for example. Also the fact that men can be victims of violence (physical or sexual) doesn’t change the fact that men are the vast majority of perpetrators.

You mean that both Jacinda and Nicola put into place quasi fascist policies?

@VeniVidiWeeWee No, I was thinking of various male-led and majority-male governments across the world. Then there’s the actual fascist governments which were in fact entirely led by men.