Parents who let your toddlers run feral, how are your kids now?

[Fruitcakesanddogs]

I have a 23 month old. I am very relaxed with him. He’s messy, loud and basically a complete hurricane. I try to just let him do his thing, unless of course he’s going to harm someone else or is really annoying someone.

I know some people don’t like this kind of parenting. If that’s you then fair enough. However I am interested in hearing from parents who did take a more relaxed approach with their toddler. How did it turn out for you?

You aren’t being gentle. Just lazy. It’s much harder to actually parent.

Forcing him into a buggy teaches that a) he doesn't have the right to decide what happens to his body

Well yeah, he doesn’t. He’s 18 months old. Bodily autonomy has to be age appropriate. My 2 year old screams blue murder when he gets his nappy changed or gets put in a car seat, and he’s absolutely desperate to get hold of and drink any bottle of beer he happens to catch sight of. Allowing him the right to decide what happens to his body would be a bit tricky with regards to all of that.

Well taking your child round a shop with toys and expecting them to happily put the toy back when it's time to leave is daft. Eithr have them in a buggy or don't go - shops aren't designed for 2 year olds.
2 is too young to worry about behaviour. But perhaps be stricter at home where a tantrum isn't being observed by others. Things like bath time, bed time.
My DCs are adults - as long as dCs have loving parents they'll be ok - even the obnoxious ones, wild ones or the one who would hide under his desk and not come out.

You aren’t allowing him to learn how to manage big feelings through modelling and empathy and doing it in a safe space. He could still grow some of these skills or he could think it’s all about him.

I know someone who patented like this as s philosophy and I was shocked by how unlikeable their children were at 8-12 when they didn’t modify their negative views on others ‘I want to go now he is boring…’ kind of thing. It did them no favours socially.

One ended up fine, he was always the softer of the two, and he works in the charity sector. The other is in prison for a violent assault. While I am relaxed by the standards of many my no is absolute when used and my teens have respected that too. They like it, actually.

Im a primary teacher and when I first started teaching (20 ish years ago) the children causing the problems tended to be those with difficult backgrounds. Now I’d say the ones I find the most difficult are the children who are over indulged, have never heard no and are very used to having their voice heard at every opportunity. The parents tend to try and explain away any disrespectful behaviour.

At school recently I had a child who was really rude to another and was baffled as to why he’d hurt his friends feelings because he’s never told anything negative (reception). This friend moved away from him and ultimately he learnt the hard way.

In my own experience these parents believe they’re doing the best for their child but really I think it’s easier for them. Children need boundaries, need to know what’s ok and what’s not but it’s hard work doing this!

I know @MiddleParking which is why I don’t bother about it. Just interesting so much MN parenting‘advice’ involves forcing screaming children into buggies.

Meant in a kind way, I would stop this nonsense right now.
You are frightened and insecure on how to parent and believe that by never making any choices, you will never make any mistakes. That by not taking away the toy you are keeping his world neutral.

This is wrong.
By choosing to not choose you are making a choice.
As a past poster said upthread you are depriving your son of the feeling of frustration when you have to do something that you do want to do and can't understand why. It's an important feeling and one that leads to the famous "WHY?"
question.
If you never put boundaries then they can never be questioned and your son won't have the chance to think about the reasons behind your choices.

Also, what's with this childhood is upsetting, he'll have the chance to feel upset at school when a child takes a toy off him? This doesn't sound upsetting to me. It's an opportunity to learn how to negotiate playing either others and how to also ensure you get some time with a toy. No need for upset 🤷‍♀️

@Fruitcakesanddogs we are what I think people would consider gentle parents. We try very hard to say the word no so when we do say it for dangerous reasons or really serious reasons generally he listens. Otherwise we try to distract and move onto something else. DS is nearly 3. He is extremely loving, great with the potty and sleeps very well.
There are weeks when we have lots of tantrums when he doesn't get his own way but I honestly think that's just him learning and not because of how we parent.
I wouldn't change how we are parenting, it seems to suit everyone in our house (even if it is extremely difficult) but mostly DS.
I think people have this idea 'gentle parenting' is an easy option but I think it's actually harder for so many reasons.
I grew up in a strict house and it has made me never want to bring my DS up like that at all

I think that approach is just setting yourself up for a lot of issues later. My DS was a real handful and used to resist going in the buggy or car seat at times, but quite frankly I had work and his sister had school, the universe could not revolve around his feelings on not wanting to be strapped in! I don’t regret being firm with that, and I don’t hold with the never saying “no” approach that some parents seem to have.

DD’s best friend was parented in the way you describe, she and her sister are nice kids but honestly such hard work and they’ve really struggled with following expectations at school. I find play dates quite tough as they look really surprised when I tell them not to do things! And I have to quite often because they don’t understand the normal boundaries that other kids do. There’s one parent I knew quite well at one stage as we did all the toddler groups at the same time locally, she would let her kid climb all over the library shelves at rhyme time etc and it was ridiculous but was par for her parenting! Her kids are now home schooled and I genuinely think they would struggle massively at a normal group or any kind of organised activity with rules or expectations.

As a teacher, I’ve taught a fair few where you can tell that the kids call the shots and the parents don’t have any control. It’s quite sad. I actually had a formal complaint from a parent the other day because I told a child to not push others. Apparently my professionalism is an issue…

Fair enough if you don't want to force him into the pram when you don't have anywhere you need to be. But I can't believe you carry him instead! Presumably this is when he gets too tired to walk? My rule has always been walking, or pram. And sometimes pram out of necessity eg if we have to be somewhere quickly.

DFriend is like this. We went to a (expensive!) zoo for the day with all of our DC. Her DC wouldn’t walk but ‘won’t go’ in a buggy so she didn’t bring it. She left after an hour as she was tired from carrying him. She wanted us to go back to her house with her, and had the hump, (‘I thought we were going to have a day together’) but I stayed with DC for the rest of the day, where we all had a lovely time.

This kind of carry on is bonkers to me.

I had my first two children while partner was with us. They had very firm boundaries and consistent parenting - ie we backed eachother up.

My last child was two when we became a single parent household. At that point I had to work full time - the older children usually had one of us home all the time as we did opposite shifts. My youngest has had less firm boundaries because I am more tired.

My first two are now lovely hard working adults who get along with most people the come across. My last does well at school and is good out and about but she is the sulky, lazy one who expects things her way at home and helps the least in the house.

My nephew who was raised like this is having a terrible time since starting school and realising he can’t do whatever he wants whenever he wants. Daily screaming matches, crying and stamping his feet. Essentially the teachers now have to do the work his parents couldn’t be bothered to.

I have a close relative who was allowed to run feral all his life. Really extreme but he was in prison by 18. Still not out. He must be 30 by now. I was so shocked that when my own DC was born, I was very strict as a reaction

My friend parents like you. Only she is just lazy, with it dressed up as ‘relaxed’ and ‘child led’.

Her son ‘explores’ everything. And throws it and breaks it. He cannot sit and engage with anything because he has no structure to his day so doesn’t know how to tolerate structured activities. He couldn’t last in nursery because there were too many boundaries he wasn’t used to and he began to lash out at other children and staff because he didn’t like being told no or redirected. I’m sorry to say I don’t like him and make excuses to see her without him. He’s not a kind or particularly engaging child. He just tears from one thing to the next and he’s broken far too many of mine and my children’s things, and hit them far too many times.

Yes I was thinking similarly. DH has always been willing to carry ours when asked, especially youngest who's now 3 and bloody heavy! She walks much further for me because I never carried her out and about. He just gets constant hassle to pick her up.

With things like this that will get tougher as they get bigger I do think it pays off to set simple age-appropriate ground rules (walk or buggy) early on rather than make a change when your back can no longer take it!

You are in for a tricky future if you don’t start having more backbone.

it’s not ok to pick up all the toys in a shop and carry them about. You haven’t paid for them and you leave when you decide you are ready. Not when they allow you to.

if you want to walk and not use the car they either walk or go in the buggy. Why don’t you just parent them and put them in it like everyone else.

your mum has ‘joked’ your child is feral. It sounds like she is trying to tell you he is badly behaved. Don’t be surprised these offers to babysit may disappear as he gets older if he continues to not listen to adults. He may be 2 but you should be able to take him to a museum and for food (in certain situations, not long meals or museums with no engaging child orientated exhibits for short periods) if you step back you will see you are already restricting your life to meet what he wants, not doing those things or going to toddler group as he won’t get in the buggy. You have a hard road ahead.

I parented gently but firmly. No meant no, you didn’t pick up and touch stuff in shops. You went in the car seat or buggy when asked (not just when there is a deadline like a school run)

I now have kids who are creative, adventurous loving and confident but who I can take anywhere and who trust me.

my god children by comparison are never told no, or are told no 10 times and then get told yes, . They are gentle parented which for them means the children are in charge. They lack any boundaries so are whiny, rude, often miserable children who are clingy to their parents. The 6 year old hits and kicks if he doesn’t get when he wants and is now quite strong and hurting his parents. I now look not to socialise too much with the children (adults fine) as they aren’t fun to be with. Their children cry and moan through any outings and my kids are fed up of them. I don’t blame them!

I know someone who parented like that. Apparently her son kept running off as a toddler as despite having a pushchair and reins he didn’t like them so she didn’t use them. When he was two I remember one friend trying to explain that you don’t ask him what he wants you tell him either you walk nicely with mummy or you sit in the pushchair but apparently that was unfair as you wouldn’t restrain an adult so why restrain a child. He was a terror growing up as he never had any boundaries so never knew what was expected of him.

even if we are in a shop and he’s picked up a toy and I reeeeeally want to leave, I’ll try and wait until he’s finally dropped it himself before we go)
How do you suppose this will work in nursery or school?
He needs to learn the world doesn't revolve around him.

Thank you Math ❤I used to look up to your advice a lot so this means a lot.

We adopted my DS and attachment parenting was drummed into us, but it is difficult to understand and in hind sight we were too permissive.

Op - the lovely things you are describing are, little walks, trips to the park. Allowing your toddler just to be themselves. I think you are most likely a lovely, caring, attentive mum.

As a caring mum, you need to teach your child that when things don't go their way, it is OK. So, if it is time to leave the shop, they need to say goodbye to the toy. There are loads of approaches in order to achieve this, counting down, say goodbye, distraction etc. Some of the techniques will result in tantrums. That's OK. They will tantrum and then they will be fine. They have learnt that sometimes they don't get their own way, and it is not the end of the world.

They are learning to regulate their emotions, feelings, body, a really important skill.

At the end if the day, the job of parents is to grow adults who can then thrive.

I have 4 DC so had to adapt my parenting as they were born. DC1 was gentle parenting but she also attended a small group childminder full time from 1 and has turned out really well, kind, thoughtful and hardworking and talks very well about feelings, has lots of friends, independent, resilient, creative, academic, organised etc. The childminder was also very gentle but with routines. So I think if you have set routines that are the boundary it can work well.
Number 4, also a DD, is a creative boundary pushing hurricane by nature. Started with gentle parenting but after Forest school type preschool (gentle by definition!) raised some concerns, I read a few books and became a lot stricter. She also gets spoilt by her older siblings and is desperate to be like them and keep up. By school age she was absolutely fine and ended up thriving, due to fair, calm boundaries.
So I think it is personality dependent and also DS1 and DD2 have boundless energy and are really sporty and as toddlers they really needed a lot of outside messy play which the other 2 more quiet and academic ones did not. Think child 1 and 3 walks around a field collecting pretty meadow flowers as a 2-3 year old chatting to other kids with advanced vocabulary, whilst child 2 and 4 will be digging up worms, throwing mud, jumping over logs etc, finding the longest stick to fight with, eating grass mud etc and child 4 will immediately find the poisonous berry/mushroom and scream to eat/touch it etc.

So children differ but an under 2 to me is still a baby because they cannot really communicate back properly. So at that point I would always gentle parent anyway with lots of love and talking and I would only be strict with anything dangerous. And I would seek out situations and places where they can play safely, outdoors, big playgroups etc.

It’s his day out as well as mine so I respect that he wants a bit longer to play

But it’s a shop. You don’t get to ‘play’ with things in a shop because you don’t own them. I’m surprised you let him carry around, a potentially damage shop stock because you don’t like telling him to do anything really.

As your approach seems rather extreme on the permissive front, and random in its delivery, you may find you have problems down the line.

You're hearing a lot from perfect parents with their perfect children due to their perfect parenting.
My perspective is when I had DD I felt very alone - none of my friends had kids and my family weren't nearby. I wasn't a natural parent and didn't take to motherhood very well. My life before that had been LOADS of fun - all about me and my career.
As a result I felt out at sea and didn't set boundaries for DD. My sister would occasionally visit and criticise my parenting. DD is brilliant now but hard work. Full of spirit but my goodness - being her mum is sometimes challenging.
When DS was born quite a bit later I felt much more confident in my parenting and had a very different approach. Where there were clear (but fair) rules. We even used the naughty step (I know - how cruel of us!). He's a very chilled, contented child as a result.
Who knows whether it was nurture or nature with kids but good luck with yours. It isn't easy.

I’ve had to force my kids into car seats and buggy it was either that or we never left the house or we’d be late for school/ doctors appts/miss the bus etc.
I wouldn’t stand for ages in a shop waiting for one of them to put a toy back in his own time.“ Time to go now Timmy, give the Ted one last cuddle, he’s missing his friends, let’s put him back”

By all means let him jump into puddles, throw stones into water, have messy play, explore his little word. Run off steam outside in the park, on the beach however children need boundaries, it makes them feel safe. The safety bar analogy posted upthread is a good way to describe it.

Deciding not to do homework because they don’t see the point of it or because an adult told them to and letting them get away with it isn’t going to do them any favours in the world of work.

Some adults do know best. One uni graduate my DH got the pleasure of training almost caused a major incident out at sea, because he decided his three years of uni trumped my DH’s many years of experience on the job and didn’t follow instructions.