Parents who let your toddlers run feral, how are your kids now?

[Fruitcakesanddogs]

I have a 23 month old. I am very relaxed with him. He’s messy, loud and basically a complete hurricane. I try to just let him do his thing, unless of course he’s going to harm someone else or is really annoying someone.

I know some people don’t like this kind of parenting. If that’s you then fair enough. However I am interested in hearing from parents who did take a more relaxed approach with their toddler. How did it turn out for you?

I agree with this.

@echt exactly.

Generally there are four parenting styles: Authoritarian (overly strict); Permissive (not enough boundaries); uninvolved (too detached); and Authoritative, which basically strikes the right balance between authoritarian and permissive. Lots of research backs up authoritative parenting as the optimum approach.

OP I would say you're a bit too permissive. Children benefit from boundaries, and from being told 'no you can't do/have that' sometimes. (So do adults!).

Children are not fragile - they aren't damaged by small amounts of stress. They are in fact anti-fragile, that is, they benefit from moderate amounts of stress.
If you challenge his behaviours gently but consistently (e.g., saying mum understands he's sad because he wants to stay in the shop but it's time to say goodbye to the toy and go home now) he'll learn to cope with negative emotions, learn that there's a time and place for everything, learn that adults are in charge of what happens and when, and learn that sometimes he has to do things he just doesn't feel like doing.

It IS good to pick your battles. I was very lenient with some things (mealtimes, dress, room cleaning, etc) but firm on who was in charge of routines.
It's not easy. I wasn't great at it when my kids were little, but I did try, and they benefited a lot from consistent boundaries and rules at child-care and preschool. They weren't perfect children or teens but have grown into good adults and are both self-disciplined and motivated and overall quite happy people.

my youngest daughter is now 13 and although is totally not academic at school she is bright, articulate extremely caring and polite. She was nuts as a toddler

My eldest daughter was like an angel as a toddler so didn't have to do much parenting and she is a very anxious sensitive extremely intelligent girl now at 16.

My toddler boy who is nearlly 2 is FERAL. Doesn't listen to anyone, climbs, shouts, throws, breaks things, works out how to open any lock or door etc. He's an absolute nightmare but he gives amazing hugs and kissss and is very loving. Also slept through the night since about 4 weeks old so can't complain there.

Children understand a lot more than you think, especially before they can verbalise it.

It doesn’t matter if you’re not in a rush to go anywhere. You don’t need to reason with him.

You can engage with him “oh that’s a cool dinosaur! I like the colour. We have to go now though, we’re going to put him on the shelf and say goodbye!” If he refuses, you say “I see you’re having a hard time
saying goodbye. Do you want to put the toy back or shall mummy put the toy back?” Then if he still refuses: “Okay, I will
make the choice then. I’m putting the dinosaur back now. Bye bye dinosaur!”

If he tantrums - that’s okay! It’s okay for him to be upset at losing the dinosaur. You need to coregulate with him and help him through it.

By allowing him to keep the toy after you’ve said to put it back, and by allowing him to refuse to go in the buggy when you want him to, you are teaching him there are no boundaries, that he is in charge and can just do whatever he wants to.

You’re also teaching him that mummy does mean what she says, because he’s hearing “you need to get in the pram now/you need to put the toy back now” but if he tantrums nothing happens. That’s a dangerous lesson to teach.

Also snacks are tantrum fuel. You should not be offering them as a distraction or a reward when you want him to do something. You’re just increasing the likelihood of him tantrumming in future.

Check out Laura Amies Nanny and Big Little Feelings. You need appropriate parenting guidance.

This isn’t gentle parenting. This is permissive parenting.

I think it’s worthwhile posing the question to teachers, rather than potentially biased parents.

I was so tired that I let my youngest do whatever he wanted within relatively-acceptable-social/safety boundaries. He has been easier than my other children by every measure. He's a teen now. Bright and confident. I would take the MN alarmists with a big grain of salt. I think it helps that I am not originally from UK, so I knew that there are other ways of parenting that are less focused on behaviour only.

Retail staff hate parents who let their horrible children do this if they aren’t going to buy it. It’s not a playgroup.
I’ve known so many children who weren’t given any boundaries and every single one of them were so unlikeable by school age, it was really quite sad. I couldn’t ever understand why the parents couldn’t see how awful they were in comparison to the other children.

At not yet two, you haven't really had to start this yes, he's only a baby. But over the next two years that will change, and it's entirely normal and expected for him to push against your expectations and tantrum. There is no avoiding that.

As everyone has said, you do need some boundaries.

The thing with the toy is a key example - you're not helping him here. The toy isn't his, it belongs to the shop and he shouldn't be playing with it. You need to teach him respect for the shop (the staff and the stock) and that actually some things aren't for him. We don't play with the toys in the shop because they aren't ours.

Parenting a baby is all about keeping them alive and settled. Parenting a toddler or preschooler is different - it's all about teaching them how the world works, and what's ok and what isn't. You're in that transition now, time to wrap your head around it.

When mine used to go rigid while I was trying to strap them in the car seat, pram etc, I’d tickle their belly. It makes it impossible for them to keep tensing the belly muscles required to maintain that rigidity, allowing me to sit them down and strap them in. Also makes “forcing” them in more gentle and playful.

This. My Brother and his wife raised their kids with no boundaries and they are nightmare adults.

Honestly, passive parenting is one of the reason so many teachers are leaving the profession or have plans to. Behaviour is getting worse each year.

It was a less stressful job when a larger majority of the children came to school understanding boundaries. I am having to do some pretty intense teaching around this before the children are even able to access the learning.

It's not too late to put boundaries in place. I made the mistake of interpreting gentle parenting as passive parenting early on, but I read a book and did some research and that helped me to understand how to be a gentle parent whilst also providing firm boundaries and it has been really positive. The main thing I took away from it was that children need boundaries to feel safe.

Letting your children run feral usually means neglectful or lazy parenting. Being kind and gentle with your children but putting a lot of effort into their upbringing is a completely different thing and seems to work pretty well.

I was lucky in that DS was a complete fire- cracker ( determined, articulate and risk taking by nature) so gentler parenting really wasn't an option for us, he also crawled at 5m and walked at 10.5 !. So firm boundaries were needed to keep everyone safe. In a lot of ways that was a blessing, although I did look on with wonder and envy at the mothers able to " light touch" their 1 year olds with distraction or gentle prompts- not so DS. He continued to test those limits right through primary school especially when he was bored and understimulated.

However by 11 he knew we would stick to our guns and that some things were simply not up for discussion.

The gentler parents ? Well some of them ( those with complient people pleasing DC) have got away with it, although I would observe those DCs used to a more permissive approach were less inclined to study hard for their exams- seeing it as more of a choice. However there are 2 ( boy as it happens- not sure that is relevant) who are seriously wayward ( they are all 19 now)- drugs, criminal activity? multiple school exclusions.

One lad in particular I remember at the end of primary school was absolutely lawless, didn't listen to anyone. TBH I wanted DS to be as far away from him as possible for his secondary education.

I know one child brought up in this way. He’s an only child (not sure how you permissively raise more than one, given the differing needs) and it in the end broke the parents who are now getting divorced. Neither had the courage to ever tell him what to do and then got frustrated with the other as his behaviour towards each was pretty foul.

He’s ok now, has had to face some proper boundaries post marriage split up, but tends towards being fairly egocentric and is horribly rude to each parent still. Then they never told him not to be.

I recall as a kid knowing some girls brought up by my parents hippy friends, both gently parented. I remember them doing absolutely awful things as kids, with absolutely no consequences and recall being so shocked they were able to do it. Both now are vile adults who have bad relationships within the family, the parents now wish they’d gone another route.

It’s not pleasant dealing with tantrums but as I say to my kids, I’m not here to be popular, I’m here to help you grow up properly and keep you safe. If I was always popular with you I would not be doing my job. They understand that and we have a great relationship. I don’t often have to say anything to them, but when I do they know I mean it and there’s a good reason which I’m always happy to explain.

Part of your remit as a parent is to be one, not a friend. Sometimes you will be the person they don’t like at that minute, but it doesn’t last, and it does prepare them.

I know two young adults/late teens raised like this. No impulse control, no ability to delay gratification, not very happy people and not very nice to be around. I wouldn't reccommend it frankly.

Op, what you are describing here is never allowing your son to experience frustration, and this is a kind of neglect. By doing this, you are actually depriving him of essential learning. He needs to learn that not having his own way won't kill him, that negative emotions are only temporary, that other people's needs are as important as his own. And if you truly love him, you need to be prepared to endure the tears and tantrums as he learns this.

This is well expressed. In life, we will endure frustrations, do things we don't particularly want to, wait for things we want. We will have negative feelings about that. Its part of parenting to teach your children to manage these feelings in an age appropriate way.

Nope! Not at all. I did it by implementing the rules that were important for their health, well-being, safety and to respect others around them. Was flexible whenever flexibility was possible. I’m a teacher and have studied education and the anthropology of education and childhood so have taken my parenting approach from what I’ve witnessed in my own students and from my research. It’s worked out really well for us all 😊

Hi op, I've 4 DC, my oldest is an absolute pleasure at 16, he always has been and the others are following suit, however they're still all under 10, but all very polite and very friendly, helpful and enjoy socialising respectfully which from your post is the kind of kiddo you're wanting so I'll try explaining how I've kind of winged my own parenting and the following things that have helped me raise my kids. Sorry its a long one @Fruitcakesanddogs 😂

Explanation. They understand a lot more than we presume at around 2 so even if its, "bye bye dinosaur, see you soon!" They're seeing you return dinosaur to the place it belongs and there is a clear connection between what comes home and what stays.

Routines are excellent to have, they Don't need to be rigid, but have some kind of one going, even if it's, bath, book, bed, have some structure. Structure makes them feel safe.

Be at your most firm on safety, roads/water/kitchens/wandering off. Let them see no matter how gentle you are, you have limits with these things and don't become complacent.
For the first time ever this week I lost my cool with my youngest DS, he's asd and ran at the kettle, out of nowhere, he just ran and bombed it at the kettle that was freshly boiled, I literally threw him out the kitchen, like I was a bouncer, in shock. We both had a cry and cuddle because I never shout, certainly never had to tackle him before but I panicked.
Don't forget no matter how much you reiterate safety to DC, there are times you will have those moments you lose it. That's okay, kids are testing AF 🙈

Kind hands/indoor voice/good job!
Kind hands - use this for when his hands are being kind, so "Oh lovely, kind hands!" And also, "uh oh, kind hands please!" In a firmer voice when they're not being as kind.
"Wow! That's a great outside voice!" When being a hooligan in the park and "what a lovely indoor voice!" When you need them to shut up a bit inside.
I say "good job" because I dislike saying "good boy/girl", but I hated having to be "good" meaning I didn't stick up for myself.

Sharing is a tough one to navigate but don't feel he has to share everything, letting others take turns of his things is lovely but also they're his, strike a balance as early as you can and as long as he shares sometimes and learns to understand other people have things they may not want him taking a big turn of, or any turn of, he'll be absolutely fine.

Natural consequences are a great way to learn and apply them as frequently as you can, but often the consequence can be quite a harsh one and that's fine.
So say my DC is being an absolute nightmare somewhere and misbehaving, the consequences are firm, we leave so we're not spoiling others fun.
I found that a "there and then" consequence will work better than "wait until we're home, you've forgotten youve been a tiny arsehole all day so now I'm removing your stuff and you don't get why".

They do have to do things they don't want too, hygiene and teeth twice a day, help with tidy up time, (even 1 toy is something and lots of praise!) I would 100% like it or not physically force my DC into having teeth brushed, no dicking around on that. I know parents who don't and they're kids are 9 with missing adult teeth, so absolutely I'd not buckle over oral hygiene.

Love, affirmations, modelling respect and showing understanding are all excellent ways to parent but you will need to also be firm on things, you want your DS to respect you as his mum, his guide and as his introduction into how he'll treat women.
You show him respect but never ever let his for you slide. Respect in a parent/Child relationship needs to be a 2 way street! Kids love pushing boundaries and you're 100% doing the right thing by adhering to having him speak to you respectfully.

I personally hate seeing kids spirit crushed, they're investigating the world at this age, let them enjoy it. Everything is exciting at almost 2 and you should be enjoying your child. I'm not saying make glitter bombs for formulate anthrax in your kitchen but let him get involved with you doing things like stir a pan or give him a duster and a job, mine loved "arranging" my cupboards and helpfully removing labels from tins. Thanks kids, pedigree chum on toast for lunch. Yum 😂

Kids are allowed to be tired and grumpy and should feel you're their safe space to be a bit of a crank at times, but they shouldn't ever feel they can almost bully you, I see that alot with "gentle" (but actually not, most lazy and unbothered) parenting where the kids are crying out for conversation and routine and often to be considered more of than a parents interest in social media but youre sounding super invested in your DC, so that isn't really applicable. But some kids are so desperate to be noticed they behave shockingly just for the attention.

I've done the following and had nay drama with the toddler and upwards years, one teen in who is a dream and hopefully I'll continue that streak, although all my DC are completely different so I might end up posting one day, "DC went from bluey to broadmoor", but hopefully not 😂🙈

I'm sure you're doing amazing! Also don't worry too much on parenting experts etc, they're a guide nothing more, I love reading parenting books, Sarah ockwell Smith, Sarah naiche etc but they're not gospel and not every bit of advice will work for your DS, so be fluid with your "style" until you find what works for you both! 💐

So for instance, I do get fed up (if only inwardly) of DS taking toys into the kitchen. I’m constantly falling over them as if I’m carrying DD I can’t see. The more I tell him not to the more he will do it. Yes, I suppose I could take away every toy he takes into the kitchen, but where am I going to put them? And after hours of this, has he actually learned anything? I don’t think so, to be honest.

To be fair @Summermeadowflowers taking all your toys into the kitchen is one of the main pillars of toddler culture. I don’t know what exactly would happen if they just kept them in the living room but judging by DS’s reaction when I suggest it, it would be bad.

And this is where you karate chop him at the hips 🤣

Will you be home educating him OP? If not, I wonder how he is going to cope with navigating his way in a classroom of thirty 4-5 year olds. The reception teacher is not going to have the time or inclination to wait for him to drop whatever he is holding so they can get the children to sit on the carpet for a story or lined up at home time.
Addressing those differences in expectations is at best going to take the focus away from the other children and seems quite selfish to me.

It all feels very focused on your child’s needs and wants and stuff everyone else. You might be willing to make your child the centre of the universe but surely that’s incompatible with being part of a community.

I think you have to think ahead to when they’re 4 and expected to conform within a school environment. You don’t really do them any favours if you let them do what they want and then they go to school and struggle.

We had a period in year 1 when some of the children were being little shits quite frankly (and no, not SEN involved from those individuals). I was shocked when one of the mum’s on WhatsApp was like ‘oh bless their hearts they’re still learning how to behave’. I was so pleased when one of my friends sent a curt message saying by 5/6 they should know not to damage other people’s things deliberately and she expected that of her toddler. I’ve seen some of the mums of boys let them get away with murder at parties and act in a really unpleasant way running feral and tearing down decorations etc. There are plenty of children who need more boundaries and not less.

Mumsnet is full of "kids need strict rules" type parenting advice. But in my experience, kids that grew up being strictly controlled, tend to grow into controlling adults (like the ones giving out such advice!)

If a child doesn't like his buggy and would prefer to walk, let him. Forcing him into a buggy teaches that a) he doesn't have the right to decide what happens to his body, and b) he can force people to do things they don't want if it suits him.

Sounds like you are doing well OP in that you have clear boundaries for things that are unsafe but otherwise let him explore and engage with him. This is not feral.

I raised mine in a similar way in his toddler years, he is now 5 and very gentle, considerate, and sociable. There were times when it would have been much easier to be a strict "do as you're told" parent, but you're doing the right thing in treating him with respect as he will learn to give it to others

The trouble is it’s impossible to get by in life without sometimes doing things we don’t want to do. And this starts young - he’ll be at school when he’s 4 and will doubtless have to do things he doesn’t want there, so it’s your job as his parent to prepare him for that. To reach him to understand that everything can’t be his way and he will have to sometimes follow instruction/direction.