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Parents who let your toddlers run feral, how are your kids now?

656 replies

Fruitcakesanddogs · 24/10/2023 21:48

I have a 23 month old. I am very relaxed with him. He’s messy, loud and basically a complete hurricane. I try to just let him do his thing, unless of course he’s going to harm someone else or is really annoying someone.

I know some people don’t like this kind of parenting. If that’s you then fair enough. However I am interested in hearing from parents who did take a more relaxed approach with their toddler. How did it turn out for you?

OP posts:
Apollobinds · 26/10/2023 19:06

My DH’s sister and her husband parent in this way. I was pretty in awe of how relaxed they were after me being fairly strict with my own dd. With their first son I often wondered if I would take that approach if I had the chance again. Completely changed my opinion now! They have two sons aged 4 and 6 who are a nightmare to be around. Because they are never told no, or face any consequences of bad behaviour there is no incentive for them to behave well. They climb all over the dining table at mealtimes, hurt each other on purpose, have massive tantrums in shops when they can’t have toys/sweets (usually end up getting them in order to get them out of the shop). Oldest is struggling with following the rules and maintaining friendships at school. Youngest is unkind to other children. Snatches toys, hits them for no reason. Neither is ever remorseful. Nor are they taught to say sorry. We’ve just been on holiday with them and my PIL’s and it was extremely stressful and not remotely relaxing. As sad as it sounds we don’t have the same relationship with them as we do with our other nieces and nephews and it’s all down to their behaviour (which is because of parenting).

Resilience · 26/10/2023 19:08

@ZebraDanios that's a good question/comment. I probably haven't expressed myself well as you're right, there's no definite evidence base for this parenting style = this type of child. There are various studies on things like attachment styles and parenting but these are by no means definitive and in many cases quite problematic ethically in the way they were conducted.

What I meant/mean to say is that I'm not really aware of many people who have genuinely, extensively researched the field of child development and made a decision about how they are going to parent based on what they've read, even choosing to take an approach quite different to what they thought they would do before. I put myself in that category btw. I'm not trying to make out I'm somehow an exception or better than anyone.

Most just hear about a parenting style, think 'that sounds like me' or 'I agree with that' and label themselves. I just recognised that I was making it up as I went along...

mia778 · 26/10/2023 19:10

Feral ? They are not wild animals and my kids are fine being free and careless . In fact my eldest is 22 now a banker in the city and much more tamed and unferal , I even took his muzzle off!

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

BertieBotts · 26/10/2023 19:32

The evidence base generally looks at either much smaller outcomes, like for example there is a specific form of behaviourism which is considered evidence based, because it's good at producing specific, measurable behaviours. And they know that hitting/smacking/spanking is associated with poor life outcomes in terms of mental health and prison time. This seems to be true even when you correct for other things like parental education etc.

Then there's the evidence base that looks at much larger definitions like dividing all parenting up into the four quadrants based on how much warmth and how much authority. Authority plus warmth is the ideal here being named authoritative, authority without warmth is authoritarian (do as I say or else), warmth without authority is permissive, parenting with neither authority or warmth is uninvolved (essentially, neglect). All three quadrants except for authoritative are associated with poor life outcomes. But again it's not detailed enough to say that X parenting produces Y type of adult, and the breadth of what is considered good parenting (authoritative) is hugely wide spanning from very strict, rigid parenting but backed up with lots of warmth, positivity and affection through all manner of parenting styles right through to a very loose, relaxed, loving kind of parenting style but where the adults are looked up to and respected. There is such a huge variation within this box which is all fine and leads to good outcomes.

Then there is attachment research but again it only gives you a very loose definition of what needs to be achieved in order to protect from the negative effects of disordered attachment. The idea for example that the parenting style "attachment parenting" is the only way to support attachment is overhyped and incorrect. You only have to achieve a really very baseline level of responsiveness to "tick that box" developmentally.

And actually the attachment research is a bit questionable anyway and again only gives us a very loose idea and it's all really obvious stuff.

So essentially what the research says is don't abuse your child, don't neglect your child, don't bring them up in a very chaotic constantly changing manner, don't pop in and out of their life as and when you feel like it, do have some expectations of them and they will probably be fine. Which is all really also what common sense and life experience will tell you. Most of the ideas that people have about parenting are much more rigid than what the research says and there is much less to "get wrong" compared to what most people claim. Most of the things that you could possibly get wrong are totally obvious things that many people would avoid anyway.

Henrietta70 · 26/10/2023 19:37

I have a family member from a middle class family do this. No real boundaries. Now a Heroin addict.
Children need boundaries. They need to understand the word no.

Elvisismycat · 26/10/2023 19:38

Crabacus · 24/10/2023 21:57

Not me, so maybe you don't want to hear from me but I have a friend who was very overrun by her toddler. Our sons are very good friends, now mid-teens.
It's problematic, to put it mildly. She has no control over him at all really, he just does whatever he wants. He lies to her about what he's doing, wanders off wherever and whenever he likes and if she tries to find out where he is, he just turns his phone off and stays out of contact until he wants to come home again. He has nothing but contempt for her really, it's really sad to see.
As a toddler, he never really got told off or if he did it was extremely mild. Never any consequences for naughty behaviour. She couldn't understand then why he misbehaved constantly.

my DM once told me that setting boundaries for children is like having the safety bar on a rollercoaster. The first thing you do is push against it to make sure it's safe - that's what children do against boundaries. If the boundary stays firm, they know they are safe but if they can't find the boundary they push and push and push to try and find where it lies. Giving children firm boundaries isn't being horrible to them, it's what they need to feel secure.

I worked in Education for 19 years and what you just posted is bang on! Children NEED boundaries end of.

myfaceismyown · 26/10/2023 19:47

I think the point raised that children need boundaries is very true. If you do not have boundaries how can you push them? my DCs are now adult and I never raised my voice when they were young. I did use "the look" and occasionally a time out. My DD told me when she was late teens that she always did what she had been asked (if she behaved in an antisocial manner) when I said "I am very disapointed in you". Apparently that is the scariest thing a normally fun and loving DM can say! You may wish to slip that into your repertoire in a year or so...

Charbead49 · 26/10/2023 19:53

It might have been covered but 'running feral' and gentle parenting are NOT the same thing.

Gentle parenting is about understanding a child's mindset and development and having clear boundaries.

Gowlett · 26/10/2023 19:55

My DS is naturally very exuberant. Social, curious, chats non-stop. Doesn’t do sitting down. Must work the room when he’s out, especially if he finds other kids! Always been that way.

Tontostitis · 26/10/2023 19:56

My children are now much older but friends I had whose dc were allowed a lot of freedom, were both only dc and massively struggled at school. Not hearing no, not sharing or learning empathy made them very poor playmates. I had one friend who genuinely believed her dc was bullied and moved school twice in infants because of it. No, she wasn't being bullied other children just didn't like her and didn't want to play with her. That little girl us now on her twenties and has had a very hard learning curve. Tbh she still struggles with no.

Chocolatehamper · 26/10/2023 20:00

@Crabacus Crabacus, I think your Mum sounds like a very sensible lady!

mathanxiety · 26/10/2023 20:01

Dalhoussie · 26/10/2023 14:07

No, I dont. He is polite and well behaved and follows rules and respects adults. But he also tells us if he thinks the situation is unfair. I think that’s great, and it’s interesting as he gets older to have conversations about which rules we might challenge and which we might not. Of course it goes both ways - if he is doing something I think is rude or selfish or unhelpful then I talk to him about it.

I’m sure it would be quicker to say ‘do this because I say so’ but he is an only child and we have time to talk about (for example) why it’s important to wait at the table til everyone has finished eating/ do your homework/ listen to your teacher even if you think she’s wrong/ be nice to the new kid at school.

I sometimes think that a lot of old fashioned professions work along the lines of unquestioned hierarchies - the law, academia, medicine. I notice the ‘do as I say’ parents I know are often from these professions and while I don’t think that approach would work for us I wonder if there is a correlation between unquestioning belief in systems and being able to climb the ladder in an old fashioned hierarchy.

But … if I had known how this thread would go I wouldn’t have commented because I think people have started to take sides - either you are a strict parent or your children are terrors. I was trying to be a bit more nuanced but this is not the place for it.

I think your specific situation is one that hasn't really been tested in the trenches of family life, though. You say yourself that your son is an only child and you've had time to talk things through with him. He's also never been carried away by the green eyed monster under his own roof, resorting to hitting, biting, kicking, or name-calling a younger sibling. He has always enjoyed the complete security of knowing he has you and his dad all to himself. Questions of fairness have not come up every twenty minutes, every day.

SunflowerSeahorse · 26/10/2023 20:05

We didn't do the laissez-faire parenting, but our youngest was quite strong-willed. He resisted getting into the buggy, so we would tickle him to make him relax out of the 'concrete starfish' posh then quickly click the straps together.
As a teacher, the kids who have been allowed to pretty much do what they want pre-school do not respond well to parents who then try to impose rules as they get older. They get into trouble at school and I feel that the parents have done them a disservice.

StaunchMomma · 26/10/2023 20:12

He has never snatched from another child, which I think could be because I rarely take things out of his hands (even if we are in a shop and he’s picked up a toy and I reeeeeally want to leave, I’ll try and wait until he’s finally dropped it himself before we go)

You're going to want to wish his teachers good luck! This is not realistic or appropriate in any way, shape or form.

Negative experiences I have had I guess include the fact that I don’t ever feel I can take him nice places like a restaurant or a museum. I also can barely get him in a buggy as he will protest too much, so mostly if I go out I just carry him or let him toddle along - so I can’t get very far.

This isn't normal. He's missing out on things because you haven't set boundaries.

Apologies if this comes across as harsh, but I think you need to start parenting him. You're just teaching him that he can always have his way.

HelloItsMeHowAreYou · 26/10/2023 20:18

ZebraDanios · 26/10/2023 11:14

What’s the right thing to do though if you insist your child does wear a coat and then they get too hot while you’re out? Do you carry it for them then?

I get that if that’s the case then technically you’re dealing with the consequences of your own decision not theirs - but would a child
of that age really understand the difference?

(I think the coat thing is really tricky - my two both run hot so it can be really difficult to judge whether they actually do need that coat or not.)

I appreciate they actually did as I asked and if they are hot I will carry it for them of course if they are running about. Then next time they realise that it is worth having the coat/not arguing as I am happy to carry it.

ZebraDanios · 26/10/2023 20:20

@Resilience No, you didn’t express yourself badly at all - I think I was just being obtuse! I totally agree that most parents essentially go with whatever already makes sense to them.

I ended up surprising myself by being far more towards the attachment/gentle parenting end of the spectrum than I thought I would be before I had children - even while pregnant I didn’t imagine myself being the sort of parent I very quickly became. But, again, that’s not because I did a ton of research and made a dispassionate decision - I went with what I felt was right.

@BertieBotts That’s all really interesting - and quite reassuring! It’s so easy to believe that the slightest misstep will ruin our kids’ lives for ever…

mathanxiety · 26/10/2023 20:22

I think an awful lot of the assumptions that underpin the identification with gentle parenting are based on a foundation of privilege.

There's male privilege, class privilege, and racial/ ethnic privilege. A white boy in a certain post code will not be judged for certain behaviour the same way that a boy of another race in another postcode will be judged. Or how a girl would be judged. The stakes are not very high for some and very for others when it comes to behaviour in public.

I say 'identification' with gentle parenting because I think it's a label that attracts a great many people, who decide that the way they're bringing up their children is 'gentle', with an implicit criticism of how other parents are doing it. As labels go, it's an example of fantastic marketing.

I think parents need to sit themselves down and examine why the label appeals to them. What is it about their own experience as children that they are trying to heal when they call their approach 'gentle parenting'? The privilege element needs to be examined too.

LillyOfTheValley2020 · 26/10/2023 20:25

Sorry this may not be easy to hear but in our NCT group the ones who did “no parenting-parenting” (ie never said no, no bed time, never made to apologise even when needed to, etc) have an incredibly hard time now with their kids at Year 5 and have been for a good while now. Literally none of them have a child that fits in easily with school (or have in nursery). To me personally they seem odd but that is entirely a personal preference.
Weather this is all right or wrong (is the school system the right one and these kids don’t fit or quite the other way around is a whole different question of course). I would add though as others noted that as general society rules follow on from what is acceptable at school, these type of kids may not fit in well there either.
If in doubt, I would cover the basics (respect for parents, no lying, no hurting others) which I think you are doing already and see where it goes.

Witchesdontburn · 26/10/2023 20:32

If you want kids to be able to learn at school, sitting still and listening are great skills to learn. They can be taught through reading together

ZebraDanios · 26/10/2023 20:32

HelloItsMeHowAreYou · 26/10/2023 20:18

I appreciate they actually did as I asked and if they are hot I will carry it for them of course if they are running about. Then next time they realise that it is worth having the coat/not arguing as I am happy to carry it.

You clearly have an extremely rational and reasonable child!

I remember letting my oldest go out without a coat on once because she insisted. She ended up so cold she was actually crying. We went home and I gently pointed out that she could have avoided feeling cold by wearing a coat like I’d advised her to.

Did she agree to wear a coat the next time we went out? Even after I reminded her what happened last time? She did not.

Some kids are just really stubborn and strong-willed and contrary, and if you don’t have one you can’t assume what works for you will work for them.

berry798 · 26/10/2023 20:33

New parent here.
Can people please give some examples of HOW to enforce boundaries in situations such as...

  • child not wanting to get in push chair
  • thumping table in a cafe
  • throwing things inside
  • putting feet on the table in cafe
Dalhoussie · 26/10/2023 20:35

@mathanxiety yes, I agree with a lot of what you say about privilege. But I also think there’s a lot more nuance involved than the taking sides approach of this thread.

my two nephews actually lived with us for 6 months at a time of family stress/ breakdown. The three boys are all similar in age and my nephews were used to a more distant approach. There were conflicts and competition, but we got through it by talking about it and we are all still really close. We didn’t have raised voices and if someone felt it was unfair then we would discuss it. So it’s not just that having an only child makes things easier. I think it’s also that we all parent according to our personalities and our children’s personalities, alongside conscious decisions we take.

aren’t we all trying to do better than our own parents? Aren’t we all learning from our own experiences of being children? There’s another thread on here from women who remember how stressed their own mothers were, and how that has affected their own parenting style. My parents were certainly disciplinarians and I’m proud of the fact that in my family the next generation doesn’t have to feel so afraid at home.

Firecarrier · 26/10/2023 20:37

Interesting point with which I agree somewhat but I do think you muddied the waters a bit by your comment about white boys getting away with more stuff.

As someone who lives in and was raised in a very working class predominantly white area, although this is changing, It has been my observation that the white WC are often very harsh with their sons and it is waaay more to do with class than colour. WC parents are worried their children will 'show them up'. They don't have the luxury of being permissive, the police, don't look kindly on us 😁

Firecarrier · 26/10/2023 20:38

Sorry was meant for @mathanxiety i did hit reply, don't get this website!

Witchesdontburn · 26/10/2023 20:41

the worst behaved children I have come across are those with really relaxed parenting,

and those with really strict parents. They go wild as soon as they are away from parental control.