Parents who let your toddlers run feral, how are your kids now?

[Fruitcakesanddogs]

I have a 23 month old. I am very relaxed with him. He’s messy, loud and basically a complete hurricane. I try to just let him do his thing, unless of course he’s going to harm someone else or is really annoying someone.

I know some people don’t like this kind of parenting. If that’s you then fair enough. However I am interested in hearing from parents who did take a more relaxed approach with their toddler. How did it turn out for you?

It depends surely @LolaSmiles ?

Wrestling DS into a buggy and ignoring him would be infinitely easier than actually trying to reach him.
It depends what you mean by 'reach'.

If reaching them means that the parent acknowledges child's feelings of sadness or disappointment and then calmly and respectfully holds the boundary, then it might not mean that going in the buggy is required. Or it could mean that after doing that the parent makes the decision that it's their responsibility to hold the boundary and support their child in moments where they're struggling to make good decisions. That sort of reaching I am on board with.

If trying to 'reach' them means the parent permissively taking directions from a child (who lacks the developmental abilities to handle the amount of power and control and influence they've been given, especially when they're already displaying developmentally appropriate behaviour, Eg having a moment with poor impulse control) or the parent resorting to grovelling and begging their child to behave then I don't think that's about meeting a child where they're at at all. I think it's an adult who feels uncomfortable with their child showing any feelings other than happiness and would rather take the easy way out that support their child through sadness/frustration/disappointment. I'm not on board with that because the poor child in the situation has had a developmentally inappropriate set of expectations and responsibilities put on them, then when they've struggled to manage them the parent lacks any clarity or strength and then is so afraid of their child experiencing normal human emotions that the child doesn't feel safe or secure because there's no responsibility or stability.

I’m a very very gentle parent and they turn out just fine my relationship with my teen is lovely, we are so close which I fully believe is down to how I raised her I was very relaxed and very gentle.
My youngest is almost 3 and he is such a lovely little soul but yes absolutely also wild so totally understand why you would use the word feral I jokingly use the term all the time.
I was also raised gently and likely described as feral at times but I’m a pretty well rounded and I like to think a nice person.
Some very judgemental responses on here . But you do you , everyone parents differently. Honestly the gentle parent groups online are great if you want advice without feeling attacked xx

Wait til they start school! Children can be confident and spirited, but you can always tell the ones who are feral and have never been told the word no - and it causes havoc and disruption to all the others.

I agree this is poor parenting but - and this going to make me very unpopular - personally I find it far more annoying when older children have been hogging a zipwire or something for ages and there’s a whole queue of kids waiting to have a go on it and their parents are standing there chatting and don’t think to remind them to let someone else have a go.

As much as the toddler going up the slide is infuriating, to me an attempt to avoid a meltdown by an emotionally volatile toddler is more understandable than just not bothering to parent your older children at all. (Sorry!)

Having firm boundaries doesn't mean shouting at your child. You can just have boundaries around the things that matter. Eg, maybe he is allowed to get up and down from the table constantly at home and sing loudly during meals. You can explain to him that in a restaurant, this could be dangerous or annoying for other people who have come to enjoy a meal and not listen to his singing etc.
You can set a timer on your phone to.move on from places "it's mummy's turn to choose what we do now, then your turn" etc.

Just basic stuff that will help him develop an understanding that other people also have needs and wants that are as important as his. This is prerequisite to any friendships developing. As other posters have replied, children who never hear 'no' are often selfish and struggle socially.

This is often said on here but I don't actually think that is how it works; I think the majority of tantrums are genuine upset behaviour, not some kind of attempt to manipulate. I don't think that (most) children enjoy having tantrums or wield them as some kind of power move. They are draining, exhausting, I know that when I lose it and shout/cry because I'm having a shit day it gives me a massive headache and I feel bloody awful. I think most people are like that. There is perhaps one adult that I know that relishes when they get to shout, bully, intimidate and throw their weight around and make people do things that they want, and they are probably a narcissist (and universally known as a very difficult person to get on with and a massive arsehole).

Perhaps there's a difference if a DC literally never gets any attention from their parent except when they throw a tantrum; they then learn that it's the way to get attention. But in general, I think that we ought to have compassion for tantrums and see them as: I'm really bloody overwhelmed and can't cope here. That doesn't mean that you should fold a boundary in response to a tantrum. But you should see it as a sign that your child has hit some kind of limit and have empathy for them.

I don't know. I have seen children throw tantrums in shops which are totally unlike what my DC do and then their parents give them stuff to make them shut up so perhaps in that scenario, it's more of a learned/conscious behaviour.

stiffening when being put in the buggy is common

I used to just tip buggy back on its rear wheels and he stopped immediately. Then quickly straighten buggy on ground, zip round to directly in front and buckle in quick. Off we go! No fuss, no saying no.

You are in charge. You have to be in charge

Honestly the gentle parent groups online are great if you want advice without feeling attacked

Some of them are, I’m sure. Some of them refuse to accept you actually are a gentle parent if you wash your kids with soap/let them eat biscuits/own anything made of plastic/think vaccination is a good idea/didn’t leave your placenta attached for a week after the birth. I got hounded out of an online gentle parenting group after I criticised another mum for saying she felt deeply sorry for any child who wasn’t breastfed or had an entirely natural birth because their mothers “just weren’t doing their best for their babies”.

I know someone well who never ever said no to their children. Never taught them to say thank you. If they behaved rudely and were annoying adults they were allowed to run amok. Neither has any manners now. One is surly and uncommunicative. The other can’t cope with failure or disapproval. Is rather odd socially, very ‘me me me’. Has never been able to make friends of her own age either .

rarely take things out of his hands (even if we are in a shop and he’s picked up a toy and I reeeeeally want to leave, I’ll try and wait until he’s finally dropped it himself before we go)

The problem with that is that when he's at nursery and then school people won't want to wait until he drops it, he'll be told to do something or put something down and may not be able to cope.

I think you’re setting yourself up for a bit of a nightmare if I am honest. There is nothing worse than badly behaved children and teens and he sounds like he’s going down that route. He controls you and what’s ok and manageable with a 2 year old becomes a total nightmare with teens.

my youngest is a lot younger than my other two. I see the way some of his peers speak to their parents, speak to other children and have no respect for anything they don’t want to do. They have never heard the word “no”. They’re perfectly polite to me but they feel everything is their right.

I didn’t see this particularly with my older 2 and I think parenting has changed. Kids need boundaries. I have few rules with them. Manners is non negotiable and they need to understand that respect needs to be earned and isn’t to be expected.

they are lovely teens / young adults and we are very very close. I’ve had next to no problems with any of them and they are very different personalities and I firmly believe that setting boundaries from day 1 has been the foundation of that.

@Fruitcakesanddogs this is sad and doesn’t bode well for the future because you’re allowing him to do whatever he wants and that’s not going to happen out in the real world so you’re setting him up for some nasty shocks when he realises that the world does not revolve around him and whatever he wants. Children have to learn that they are not in charge and sometimes they have to do things they don’t want to do. As do we all. It’s part of life. And a good lesson to learn when young.

If your son is almost 2 then he will understand the vast majority/all of what you are saying, he just might not be as advanced verbally, yet.

BertieBotts
I agree on the whole, but think there's a line that gets crossed with tantrums and it's based on how the adults respond.

If a child gets themselves worked up into a real tantrum and they're met with a calm adult who helps them co-regulate in a safe way, they learn the adult is a safe adult who is a secure base.It might be that the adult has to remove them from the situation and that's ok. They learn that these uncomfortable feelings are part of life, they learn coping strategies and they learn that their caregivers can handle it.

If a child gets themselves worked up into a tantrum and they're met with an unsure parent who seems flustered by the tantrum, they start learning that there might be something wrong with those feelings after all Mum/Dad seem worried about it. Then Mum/Dad starts doing the pandering dance of would you like this, if you stop crying you can have sweets on the way home, and oh darling you are so upset you can't have the dinosaur? Well how about we get you it. The child learns that their parents are phased by the emotions, they learn that their parents will give them whatever they want if they turn the tantrum on in future.

Each time they have the sense of disappointment or sadness, they now know that if they just escalate it then in the moment they'll get what they want. Longer term they don't get the security and stability that comes from knowing the parents can handle their feelings. By teens if they're used to having their own way all the time, that's where big problems start.

In a way the second one is using tantrum as a manipulation tool, but it's primarily because there's other needs that aren't being met. They don't know how to deal with their feelings and their main adults haven't shown them they can handle it.

Mine was allowed to be totally feral with the exception of not being allowed to hurt other people or their property. He had food he could help himself too and chose whether he wore clothes that I laid out or not.

We just didn’t give him access to mental things or insist on behaviours, generally were very very child led. His father and I are both pretty gentle people by nature. Lots of pleases + thank yous and gentle behaviour modelled rather than enforced.

he is a DELIGHTFUL 5yo. Actually a real rule follower at school. Extremely polite.

his little brother is being raised in a v. Similar way - but is a totally different child. I’ve had to set some more firm boundaries with him or he would have boiled the kettle and poured it on the dog / hot wired the car with a bread knife…

depends on the child I think.

Kids go through a phase of the body stiffening thing, but there is a way to be firm about putting them in (including firm tone and serious facial expression which they can up more than words) the buggy, in which case you only have to do it a few times (IME) but I wouldn’t describe as “forcing” as it’s being decisive but obviously not hurting them.

How about you just tell your kid not to touch stuff in shops? Because they don't own it. No need to shout, no need to moan. It's not a toy centre, it's some stuff that doesn't belong to you. Why take your poor child to a shop to play?

And children who can't accept no (special needs apart) are an utter pain at school. Just parent responsibly. With boundaries.

Children need and thrive with boundaries. You are letting yourself and your child down and making a rod for your own back.

Any half decent parenting book will explain this and the psychology of it

You keep mentioning the conversation thing - it doesn't matter that he can't speak (much) yet. You can still say it simply -they understand tone of voice very early on.

You really won't get to the 'reasoning' stage till much later. It's not necessarily language but more maturity that will bring that on. Don't let that stop you explaining things and following through with what you need to do. He will get it anyway.

This.

you are taking the easy way out with your son. You don't have to be heavy handed with him but nearly 2 is old enough to begin to understand that the world doesn't revolve around him alone and that sometimes things won't go the way he wants.

If you have another child how will you manage this? you need to go to the bathroom to change the baby but the 3 year old has never experienced leaving a place sooner than he wants to?

We were very gentle parents in many ways. No naughty step, no grounding or punishments when they were older. we had 3 children who responded very well to whatever rules we had and to having a talk rather than being grounded. We might have changed if we had one who disregarded us. But right from the start we did insist on rules, listening, and understanding that they were part of a community in every social setting (family/school/playground) and being aware of other people's needs in those communities was very important.

I have physically forced a toddler into a buggy. I didn't have a choice. I had 3 children I needed to get home. It was fine. I have physically held down a toddler who didn't want to get dressed. Her brother offered to hold a leg for me. He really wanted to go to the children's museum as was the plan.

Sadly, I know a child who is now 10 and has been parented how you describe. He’s had no boundaries and is a nightmare to be around. He has no friends and it’s sad but really, his parents are to blame. He’s never done anything wrong in their eyes and his irritating rude behaviour is strangely endearing to them. I’d hate to let my child down for an easy life.

I think this largely depends on the child. Some children are very very easy to parent and to set boundaries for.

Heading into ADHD/PDD territory: Others are a friggin nightmare and actively resist boundaries so for such children, boundaries are actually counter productive. For instance, with my last DC if I tell him not to do something, he’ll nodoubtedly try to do it BUT if the boundary isn’t set in the first place, the idea to break it doesn’t come into his head.

They are 11, 9 and 7 now. They're still feral but they're good kids. They're just happy. They're not naughty but they're loud and quirky. We are an ND family though and being overly restrictive does not fly with any one of us. I am firm when it counts.

It’s hard as some would call my parenting gentle and others wouldn’t. We have firm boundaries on certain things. My children can eat and behave in restaurants but they make a child level of noise and we remind them to speak more quietly etc (toddlers so still learning). Museums we can go to no issue. Going in the buggy if told is non negotiable and my children are made to put stuff back in the shop if we aren’t buying it and we work through the inevitable meltdowns which are improving! Sorry OP but you sound like you have NO Boundaries at all and I find your parenting really really soft, like your child is in charge. Those children become really really unlikeable, you aren’t doing your child a favor by never correcting them or being firm

I will add, if I may, that you (as well as anyone in this thread) will know that your parenting style isn't a sure road to the kids mentioned who end up in drugs, in jail, or out of work etc. It still depends on the child's personality.

But beware not so much "horrible kids", but kids who don't understand the norms of behaving in groups or "know their place", the child who believes himself equal to any adult and thus entitled to call the shots. There is an absolute epidemic of entitled tweens and teens who politely, eloquently but firmly & resolutely declare to teachers and other adults, what they will & won't be doing, raised to think their opinion is equal to the King's. How do you think that serves them in their first job?

The parents, unfortunately, have raised the children in a way that treats them as an adult. Here's the thing: children are not adults. By you deciding that he shouldn't have to use the buggy etc because he doesn't want to and should have that "right", you're more realistically pretending he understands the situation in a way he certainly does not.

How do I know all this? My DD1 (mid-20s) has never successfully held down a job. I thought I was kind, but I was permissive. She is outspoken and polite, well-liked, will jump up and defend herself, or anyone. By high school she just decided to stop going and I gave in because I had left it far too late to have any influence; she was already an independent, adult-attitude person who considered her opinion the only one which mattered (without the age and wisdom to understand the consequences!). Her first job lasted two days because she said she was tired and called in sick. Her second job lasted three weeks, she felt they were "disrespectful" when she was always late. Her third, she just decided she didn't enjoy. Nothing awful, she just felt she wasn't "valued enough".

This is textbook child-centred-ness. Not child-centred parenting. I tried to raise a bestie instead of parenting a child. DS1 arrived later into a bigger, extended family where other people's needs mattered, while all of us were doing whatever it took to placate the unruly preschooler. By then, she was big enough to kick, to run off and hide, tear off towards the road if it suited her. And I hadn't the ability, wisdom nor the energy to try to tighten those expectations in a child who'd been raised to think she was the centre of the universe.

DS1 nowadays is very chilled, but also displays some of the same lackadaisical attitude towards things, and at times the consequences of this have really hurt him. But he still actually listens to me, because he had boundaries where his sister did not. It's not cruel to teach a toddler that sometimes they just have to accept things they don't like. It's kind. And we're supposed to be raising them to function in society - not raise them to be independent solo adults on a desert island.