Parents who let your toddlers run feral, how are your kids now?

[Fruitcakesanddogs]

I have a 23 month old. I am very relaxed with him. He’s messy, loud and basically a complete hurricane. I try to just let him do his thing, unless of course he’s going to harm someone else or is really annoying someone.

I know some people don’t like this kind of parenting. If that’s you then fair enough. However I am interested in hearing from parents who did take a more relaxed approach with their toddler. How did it turn out for you?

Why does this equate to the outcome from Gentle parenting. I would say kindest was the most important attribute to teach my DC and that doesn't produce self-centred children.

The most popular girl in my daughter’s class is regularly in the headteacher’s office for shouting at teachers and has a habit of calling other kids fat and ugly…

Popular is another word for having friends ? Which your child is more likely to have if they been taught how to get on with people and that they are not the centre of the universe.

Poor kid I know was having tantrums at 13 if she didn’t get her way. Her friends got sick of it.

Are you coming back to your thread, @Fruitcakesanddogs ?

I can see what you are hoping to achieve but not sure will work out. I would think is better to set the ground rules now than later on really. So for example when my children were little they were not allowed to touch things in shops and so before every shopping trip i'd be sure to say don't touch anything without asking etc etc. And of course I'd have to remind them here and there but they learnt they couldn't go round shops just picking products up as of course some things are breakable, made of glass etc. It was hard work when they were little but now at 5yrs and 9yrs they know what's expected and will ask when they see something if they are OK to pick it up. Same with museums and restaurants I went with teaching then early on that they shouldn't run around or shout etc. and should sit nicely at table etc. from early age so now they just do this naturally (usually!) . Again was hard work when young but worth it.
Totally up to you, but at some point you'll have to put the work in so they have an understanding of what's expected in public places. Helps with school etc.

It sounds like it's his way or the highway. Can you imagine him being a married adult, he'd expect his wife's world to completely revolve around him just like your world does.

Re gettingvthem in pushchair and go rigid. The abnwer is yes. my nieces did it. one hand on body, talked calmly but these straps went on. no ifs no buts.

@LolaSmiles
your example with touching and buggy is actually perfect setting of boundary in gentle parenting

Thank you. For me the game changer from "I'd want to have boundaries from the start but I hate authoritarian and behaviourist approaches, but gentle parenting sounds very permissive to me based on what I've seen" to "I get this, gentle parenting is actually authoritative parenting, which sounds very me" was wading past the permissive shit that's out there to the central premises of authoritative parenting where it's more of an outlook than technique. It's about the parent setting the agenda, selecting appropriate boundaries and then holding them respectfully without shame or invalidation.

A permissive parent might get all bogged down in "I understand sweetie you really want to stay in the park. That's ok, we'll stay until you tell me you're ready to go." They might even bizarrely convince themselves this is because they respect their child and everything is a collaboration and it's the child's day out too.

An authoritarian parent will get into "we're leaving now because I say so. 4pm and not a minute later" because they decided 4pm was the arbitrary cut off. If the child is sad or cries or gets stroppy, the authoritarian parent will tend to shame or invalidate the child and it's the because I say so outlook.

A gentle/authoritative parent wouldn't be bothered about leaving at 4.10 over 4pm if there was time and they saw their child was having fun/the child asked for one more go on the swings, but it would be the parent's decision. When it's time to go they give their child clarity that we are leaving in X minutes, probably check if there's anything extra they want to do before they go, and then when it's leaving time they go. They might give appropriate choices or make a game out of it, but the parent decides it's time to go. If the child is sad, the authoritative parent acknowledges the feelings, doesn't shame the child, but holds the boundary. If that means carrying a screaming child or the park, so be it.

From this it’s hard to tell wether you are:

a permissive parent who’s toddler rules the roost, you have no control and no boundaries in place and finds it funny when they’re distributive, which will mean others won’t want to really be around him. which will 100% come back to bite you, and them, in the arse
OR
a gentle parent who lets their child explore, climb, run, be silly, go wild, get messy, and uses kind words and expressions with them, sits with them whilst they feel their emotions and explains afterwards what they felt and why and will not allow them to be unkind, disrespectful, rude or aggressive. If the latter is true you’ve nothing to worry about.

@LolaSmiles They might even bizarrely convince themselves this is because they respect their child

I think this is one of the biggest misunderstandings about gentle parenting - the idea that being kind and respectful to your child means always doing what they want. Letting your child do whatever they like is neither kind nor respectful, for the many reasons that have already been listed in this thread.

I’ve been thinking about my kids’ friends and my friends’ kids and I must be unique here but I can’t really see that much of a correlation between their behaviour and the way they’ve been parented (or at least, what I see of it). I can think of one girl, for instance, who I would call obnoxious but having spent a lot of time with her family I can see nothing that accounts for why she’s like that, nor anything her parents are doing differently to that of other parents whose kids are more pleasant to be around. Surely so much of it is just personality?

From what I recall of The Blank Slate, nurture only really plays a significant part up to puberty anyway and then kids’ peer groups influence them far more than their parents do. That’s not saying that the way a child was parented as a toddler will have no effect on them whatsoever once they’re a teenager, obviously! - just that everyone saying “I did x and my kids are y” should maybe consider that there’s a bit less causation there than they might think.

Agree with all that and also think it’s a random mix of parenting style and personality of the child. What works for one child won’t necessarily work for another. It’s not easy!

Friends always treated their kids as if they were older - very relaxed but not over indulgent but never made them do worthy things they didn’t want to. Never made them go on walks / play instruments they didn’t want to etc which many of us did . Both theirs delightful and lovely young adults unlike the children of the rather overbearing “you must play the violin and go on a six mile walk” intense parenting family one of whose teens has gone rather off the rails.

I think this is one of the biggest misunderstandings about gentle parenting - the idea that being kind and respectful to your child means always doing what they want. Letting your child do whatever they like is neither kind nor respectful, for the many reasons that have already been listed in this thread
I agree with you.

There's some huge misconceptions, usually perpetuated by permissive parents who don't want the hard work of parenting and boundaries.

When you think about it, it's really not kind or respectful because it prioritises the adult having an easy life over the child feeling secure and safe.

It depends surely @LolaSmiles ?

Wrestling DS into a buggy and ignoring him would be infinitely easier than actually trying to reach him.

Well not necessarily @Summermeadowflowers , some parents find dealing with their child's negative emotions really difficult. They'd literally rather spend 45 minutes cajoling or just give up than see their child angry or upset. It may not be practically easier but it can be psychologically.

My sister and her husband are both well behaved calm people educated etc. They had a very Laid back approach to their kids to the point of neglect. The kids were sweet but a bit all over the place as kids. They are now all naturally calm and well behaved doing very well academically and socially and really nice kids. They all seem to have calm personalities though.

I’d rather cajole than upset a child. This is what I find a bit odd about this discussion. If I can avoid a massive tantrum, screaming and upset, then absolutely I will. I don’t think getting distressed is in anybody’s best interests - it’s unavoidable sometimes but not exactly the great teaching moment it’s been painted as on here!

Do you think teachers can cajole 30 kids individually?

I am a teacher. The above statement doesn’t work because school is a completely different environment, not least because no school in the land has thirty two year olds and one teacher, although give it time with the Tories. What is effective with older children often isn’t so much with very young ones, especially at that funny 18 month to two and a half year old stage where you really do struggle to reason. My DS is three in December and I can sometimes, sort of, reason with him a bit, but not really prior to 2 and a half.

Sounds like they may have some neurodivergence there that’s maybe gone unnoticed?

I hated parenting a very strong willed toddler, she was really hard work so to a certain extent I just went with it & avoided situations that were triggers rather than trying to train her like a dog. Would never have allowed her to be mean to others though, I think that’s my main boundary. Now she is four I find it so much easier, she’s very intelligent so I can reason with her and everyone says she is lovely and she is well behaved at school etc. But oh my lord she was a nightmare toddler!!

What is effective with older children often isn’t so much with very young ones, especially at that funny 18 month to two and a half year old stage where you really do struggle to reason.

I was thinking this earlier when someone asked how you’d get a 14-year-old to do what they were told if you couldn’t do it when they were two - at least teenagers have some grasp of reason. It always struck me when people complained about how annoying Bing was that he was nowhere near the level of irrationality and contrariness my toddler was capable of!

Another argument that teaching is not parenting is that if a pupil persistently disobeys you just send them to someone higher up for them to deal with. Alas there’s no sending your own toddler to the headteacher!

I think for most of us, our positions don’t seem to be particularly far apart.

.I think there is a difference between ‘this has to happen’ - an example might be going on the car seat to make a journey, and of course the child has to; they just do. This happened to us back in June, we were coming back from holiday, stopped at some services and DS (then aged two and a half) went absolutely bananas when we got him back in his car seat. We obviously couldn’t have stayed at the services indefinitely but I don’t think DS sat in the back with infinite gratitude masked as rage for our non negotiable boundaries. He was just really angry and upset and that’s not in anyone’s best interests.

Every parent who's let their kids run feral think they're now little angels who can do no wrong, they just have a bit of a mischevious streak.

Meanwhile, said children are out all hours on the street getting drunk, shoplifting harrassing members of the public and vandalising everything, and getting asbos left right and centre

I think I understand what you’re trying to say and I think we’re similar in a lot of ways. I don’t understand parents who tell their children off for every single little thing and stop them from doing things for no real reason other than it’s not what they want to do/see.
Some examples:
I let him get covered in paint/colour himself in whilst some parents either won’t let their children near the paint or supervise so closely so that nothing gets on them/their clothes and hover with wipes/take them to wash their hands immediately afterwards. I don’t understand this at all because if you’re going to take your children to places that have messy play/creative activities then you have to let them join in/explore or what’s the point? Children and clothes are washable.
I let him play in the sandpit at the park which has gotten me odd looks from other parents on a few different occasions as they tell their children they’re not allowed to play in the sand as it is dirty… It wouldn’t be there if it wasn’t supposed to be played in and again, children and clothing can be washed.
I let him climb on things and run around (where it’s safe to do so) as he needs opportunities for risky play and to learn how to get back up and try again if he falls down
He doesn’t have a bedtime and can go to bed anytime between 6:30pm and 11pm depending on when he’s ready/if he’s napped as I don’t see the point in having him struggle for hours when he’s not tired when he can just play nicely downstairs or watch something on tv 🤷‍♀️
I don’t make him join in with the activities at his toddler classes if he doesn’t want to do them. I do encourage him to take part but if he doesn’t want to I let him explore the room instead (all toddler classes are in safe places and it hasn’t been an issue so far and other children do this too)
If he’s having a tantrum (he just lays flat on the floor and doesn’t move) I let him. I offer him a cuddle/try to pick him up but if he doesn’t want that then that’s fine. He’s allowed to deal with his emotions and come to me when he’s ready (I obviously don’t leave him and he’s only done this when we’re out shopping so far so it’s safe - if he ever does it in the street I would pick him up and move him for his safety whether he wanted me to or not)
We don’t have stair gates/didn’t have a gate/pen for him and we have always let him roam around the house freely (we go with him if he is using the stairs or is near them for safety and hold his hand if he wants to walk down them) but we do have baby locks on the cupboard in the bathroom where the cleaning stuff lives and on the fridge, cupboards and ovens in the kitchen so that he can’t get to anything unsafe

So we basically let him do whatever he wants as long as it’s not unsafe/dangerous -
He has to hold our hand, be carried or be in the pram if we are crossing a road/in a car park ect.
We tell him no if he is going to climb something without a safe landing, throw something hard, throw something at the tv, draw on furniture, eat something/put something in his mouth that he shouldn’t ect.

Is this what you mean??