Parents who let your toddlers run feral, how are your kids now?

[Fruitcakesanddogs]

I have a 23 month old. I am very relaxed with him. He’s messy, loud and basically a complete hurricane. I try to just let him do his thing, unless of course he’s going to harm someone else or is really annoying someone.

I know some people don’t like this kind of parenting. If that’s you then fair enough. However I am interested in hearing from parents who did take a more relaxed approach with their toddler. How did it turn out for you?

You find keeping your child safe horrific? I don't think you can mean that. So you find the idea of thwarting his will horrific. That's different and honestly a bit disturbing

There’s misunderstanding unintentionally, which happens, and pretending to misunderstand to prove a point, which I never think is very successful. No one is being rude (until then) so there’s no need to resort to sarcasm to make a point. If you genuinely didn’t understand that something can be necessary and horrible at the same time then I’m not really sure what to say, to be honest. Anyway, the point is that it isn’t a method of discipline, it’s generally used in desperation IME, when other strategies have not worked.

@Turfwars That’s really interesting - I’ve always felt like just saying “no” somehow felt a bit wrong but l could never really articulate why, but that makes perfect sense. And I will try to train myself out of saying sorry quite so much!

@BertieBotts i am conscious of diverting the thread too much but I know in those examples DS will push / hit out of frustration. If I ‘punish’ then that adds to the frustration and exacerbates the problem, whereas a quick ‘kind hands’ allows us all to move on rapidly. I suspect MN would view that as horribly permissive, though.

I fully agree with you @Summermeadowflowers - there’s no and no. I also did the “let’s keep the water in the bath” or “when you wear your hat you can play anywhere in the playground, but if you don’t you have to sit and wait in the shade” (we’re in Aus) was more likely to be complied with than “no splashing” or “no! Leave your hat on”, plus it made me feel less like a prison guard.
Then I could save the NO for “No! You must never hit” although even there I would probably follow up with “because it hurts. It looks like you’re frustrated, let’s find a new game”
Honestly, reading all this it just reinforces, parenting is hard, no two kids are the same and we have to be kind to ourselves and accept we’ll fuck some bits up sometimes!
I know I made loads of mistakes early on while I was finding my way and figuring out my boys and luckily they seem quite ok now.

Lots of "gentle" parents in my area.

The kids can be awful as they get older, especially in the 11-14 range. The girls are worse.

You sound exactly like my sister (maybe you are!) Even down to my 7 year old niece.

She was very big on "gentle parenting" and having relaxed boundaries when her daughter was little but openly says she regrets it now.

DNiece is a lovely girl at heart but a nightmare if she doesn't get her own way. She finds it hard to regulate her emotions and is often upset. Flies into terrible tantrums that you'd expect more from a 3 or 4 year old. She's not used to being told no and is now struggling at school (emotionally and socially, not academically as she's very bright.) She struggles with authority and with friendships as she's used to doing what she wants. DSis now says she's trying to undo things and put firmer boundaries in place but it's very hard.

You can be firm but kind. Having boundaries and being strict about things doesn't mean you have to be shouty or not a nice parent. From my experience in teaching I strongly believe that children do better when there are boundaries and behaviour expectations in place.

@AInightingale How do you get that variation in one family with one mother who was a disciplinarian?

Exactly. You’d think anyone with a reasonable degree of familiarity with any family with more than one child would instantly be able to see that no-one is a product of parenting alone, and yet this thread (and everywhere!) is full of “I did this and my kids turned out amazing” and “my friend did that and her kids are a nightmare”.

I have no idea whether any of the approaches I’ve used towards my kids have had any impact on them at all or will in the future - but I’ve been parenting them the way I have not with some future person I want them to turn into in mind, but because it’s felt like the right way to behave towards them at the time. That’s always been the only way I can make sense of parenting, really.

That’s a lovely post @ZebraDanios , especially the last paragraph.

I have done a lot of work with children with complex needs and I had a bit of a road to Damascus moment when I started thinking about the horses I had as a child and teen. Kindness, calmness and mutual respect are key.

I do think on here anyway there’s a bit of a trend towards very strict, controlling behaviour which is probably a pushback to the gentler methods favoured over the last decade.

I think gentle parenting, in my experience, can result in children growing up feeling very insecure and can affect their confidence later in life.
Children need to know someone is in charge and they are safe. Otherwise you are essentially putting so much responsibility and decision making onto a young child and expecting them to cope with it. They can't. And that is why they struggle to handle their emotions when faced with something they are suddenly not allowed to do (school, work, social situations).

As a parent, that responsibility should be on your shoulders, not theirs.
The dc's I have known growing up with my own who seem well adjusted and confident and basically nice to be around, are those whose parents had a varying degree of strictness, but there were rules and boundaries in place. I guess they were able to simply be kids without having every decision thrust upon them about how to behave and what to do and what do they want to do.

The ones who I would consider were gentle parented seem very insecure and hide that through over bravado, selfishness and attitude of doing what they want. But you can tell they have quite low self esteem underneath it all. I think deep down they just wanted someone to care enough to make them feel safe and not put every single responsibility or decision onto their little shoulders. They also openly have zero respect for their parents, especially their mothers. One calls his mother a bitch on regular occasions and she has no control over him at all (he is 12). Its quite sad to be honest, as they just are not liked very much by anyone and at the end of the day it isn't their fault.

Thats not to say it doesn't work for some people, this is just my experience. I guess different personalities of children would cope with it differently and turn out differently.

I do think when children are never told no or to be taught that sometimes they need to give and take or put others first, it will produce children who will ultimately struggle in life when things cannot go their way. Which is not doing them any favours at all, quite the opposite.

Sorry, I just saw your kid is nearly 2. Absolutely they can understand basic instructions at that age.

Thank you & yes I agree with you. It’s early days (6 months) but I’m noticing a huge positive change already! Tougher & consistent boundaries but still explaining why lots.

i (much like your Sister) was noticing that she couldn’t regulate her emotions - the things she got upset about & stayed upset about😱 Also, the friends thing, she always wanted to be first, to have her own way, to be thought of the best etc & her friends were starting to ditch her.

I also don’t ‘fix’ things for her previously, I now ask her questions & explain things in a way that gives her the tools to try & work it out herself.

I was brought up in a very strict (but neglectful) environment & I’d gone the other way and now I have to put it right.

I will get there, I don’t think it’s too late! I’m self sufficient & independent so hoping seeing how I deal with life along with lots more boundaries will rectify it. I love her so much & I will devote all my time to this!

Much harder than I imagined being a Mum! Definitely think I’d have been better getting a hamster🤣

I am not your Sister (imagine!) I don’t have a sister, used to but not now😊

They can understand basic instructions ‘can you bring me your shoes?’

They can’t understand money, ownership and so on. They just know they are in a place with fun and exciting things and they aren’t allowed to touch them.

This is an interesting thread! I have a 3 year old and 18 month old so I don't know yet how our parenting style will influence them when they're older. We try to be firm without shouting and also try to give some freedom and choices when we can. It's a difficult balance.

But I don't agree with letting him picking up toys in a shop and wandering around, don't you think that would annoy the staff?! Saying no might cause some crying/protest initially but you might find he quickly gets the message. He probably understands more than you think, he just just can't yet communicate back to you.

@Summermeadowflowers I do think that a lot of parenting is done with the focus on what the parents want the child to turn into - if I do x they’ll become y, if I don’t do x they’ll never learn to do y etc. But I don’t think a child is a piece of clay that its parents need to (or even can) mould into an object - I think a child is more like a plant, and their parents’ role is to provide the right conditions for them and then let them flourish.

(Taking that analogy further, I read once that there are “dandelion children”, who will basically flourish anywhere, and “orchid children”, who need very specific care in order to do well. The idea that some children are more impacted by parenting than others does make sense, I think. I suspect I have two dandelions…)

I agree with that @ZebraDanios

DS … blimey, he drives me up the wall 😅 he’s determined and strong - physically very strong, we do butt heads sometimes because I do think we both share a streak of stubbornness! We do both have a sense of humour though. I also think we’re both at our worst when tired, like many people.

I’m not sure that children do ‘get the message’ to be honest. Maybe some do but many don’t. I find toy shops best to avoid with under 3s.

Well it's just not parenting is it? It's just watching over him. Children should be told no, do you expect him to grow into an adult who understands they can't get their own way all the time miraculously?

Yes, this! I suppose I was a gentle parent not permissive. My 16.5 year old DS is intelligent, articulate and importantly emotionally intelligent, when anyone speaks with him, Grandparents, me and his Dad you forget his age as it is more like speaking to someone who is 20/21 he is really charismatic - just got a saturday job recently for instance by chatting to the owner of a bakery where he was just going in to buy something, came out with a job.

My DD is 12 and we are incredibly close and she is not as bold but is thoughtful creative and quite shy so never gets in trouble at school.

On the buggy/ carseat thing. I only ever gave snacks in the buggy, so would say eg: come and get in the buggy then you can have a packet of raisins for example. I think if they are fighting you off those very shallow umbrella strollers are easier. Once I have them in and started moving they usually gave it up.

I definitely think of it as keeping them safe, so adults have to do things we might not like to stay safe too, like driving at the speed limit or waiting to cross the road. If you can't get him to do what you need him to at 2 what hope will you have at 14 ?

@Roussette

The chain and key incident you described brings back memories of the child of a friend that I mentioned upthread. He delighted in draping string, tape, etc around furniture, through doorways, etc, creating traps and tripwires. Despite the many falls and inconvenience this resulted in for his parents and siblings, they never forbade it or imposed any punishment. I once witnessed his mother patiently picking her way over multiple strings and obstacles while carrying the family's laundry to the washing machine.

He never liked it when other people played pranks on him though, and nobody ever asked him to ponder how other people might feel when they were tripped or their chair was pulled out from under them, and he had a very hard time making friends when he was about 5-6 because he didn't understand where fun stopped and annoying or even downright nasty or mean behaviour began.

The reactions of other people puzzled him. The social world was a place he had to figure out all by himself, and the only tool he had been given was the notion that his feelings were the only aspects of any given situation that mattered.

My friend parented like this and hugely regrets it now that her DD (my goddaughter) is 9. I actually feel sorry for her because she felt she was doing the right thing and is now desperately trying to put things right. Her DD Is rude, entitled and really doesn't understand why she can't have all her own way sometimes. She told someone that her DD has ADHD recently because 'it just feels easier to say this', even though it's not true (she did have her assessed. Sadly, I think she wanted a diagnosis because then she would have her 'reason'). My goddaughter was about 6 years old when my friend admitted to me that she felt she had 'created a monster'. I love my goddaughter, but I can't say that she's easy to be around.

I think it’s actually cruel to your kid. They have to learn for themselves what pisses other people off. Some are smart and realise it for themselves but much kinder to do it for them. Their peers won’t be indulgent like mummy is and will vote with their feet. I have noticed that anecdotally those teens with most indulgent parents are the least popular ones with fewest mates and fewest invites.

@TheaBrandt I’ve always told my kids not to worry about being popular as long as they have a few really good friends. Mine are only at primary school, but my experience of secondary school was that the most popular kids were by no means the most pleasant.

You won’t get very far with friends if you are entirely self centred and always have to get your way.

Yes, this is so true of secondary school, it is a tale as old as time - I remember the most popular kids being the most u educated louts that liked dance crappy music when I was at secondary schools, usually pretty cruel if you didn't look at act like them. My DC go to/went to probably one of the most liberal secondary schools in the country but the kids with disciples i.e 'popular' are usually the most obnoxious so I am not sure about this most friends= great person to be around due to upbringing!

This wasn't the case so much in younger primary years and is definitely not the case at DS's 6th form colleges.