Labour want teachers to supervise kids brushing their teeth ARGH.

[noblegiraffe]

People can't get dentists for their children.

Children's teeth are one of the top reasons for child hospital admission, with 9 out of 10 extractions in 0-5 year olds being due to preventable decay.

This is clearly an area that needs addressing urgently.

BUT schools are in crisis, if they're not literally falling apart they are running out of teachers or unable to hire teaching assistants. Primary schools are increasingly unable to meet the needs of children with SEN and disabilities, where numbers are going through the roof. Where is the time to supervise teeth-brushing going to come from? Who has the capacity to implement this? It seems that Labour are willing to accept that there is a crisis in dentistry, but pushing extra workload onto schools to solve it is just failing to recognise the crisis in schools in terms of ability to take on extra responsibilities.

There is an increasing trend to see a problem in society and expect schools to do something about it. There's also an increasing trend whereby underfunded support services for children reduce the offer of those services, and schools are just expected to pick up the slack. An example would be NHS Southwest deciding to stop accepting referrals for autism diagnosis except in cases of extreme need, saying that schools could just deal with these children not having a diagnosis. CAMHS collapsing under the weight of mental health issues in children was met with the policy that schools should have a member of staff given a bit of training to try to replace expert services. Special schools are saying that some children are too needy for their specialist setting, so those children with extreme needs are left in mainstream schools who are just expected to get on with it.

Why is Labour's go-to that teachers should supervise teeth brushing and not that parents should supervise teeth brushing and be supported in this?

What do people want the purpose of schools to be? If it is to educate children, then the rest of this stuff needs to be farmed elsewhere.

If it is to be that schools should be a one-stop-shop for all issues relating to children, then we need funding, staffing and infrastructure that acknowledges this new role.

Schools might as well become children's homes.

Another ridiculous labour policy. It is the parents responsibility to teach their child to brush their teeth. Along with it being the parents responsibility to feed their child and all other nanny state shit that Labour want to foist on this country. When are people going to take responsibilty for themselves and stop expecting the government to do their job for them?

Who, how, when, where. I feel like dfe should have these words plastered everywhere and be forced to detail these things for any idea they come up with then go try and enact their idea in an average school setting for trouble shooting.

Oh and, ‘instead of what?’ should be on there. What do you want teachers to drop in order to create the time for this new thing?

I don't remember teachers doing it. I do remember regular visits from a school dental service where we all had to sit and swish foul tasting fluoride mouthwash and had disclosing tablets doled out and then had our teeth examined and free toothbrushes/paste.

But heaven forfend money was actually put into public heath services/staffing as a public good - teachers shouldn't be doing it.

I get that people had a,tough time during lockdown but why would that have an affect in speech and toilet training three years later ?
Is that some special need,s were not picked up.during lock down ?
And tbh, how much longer can we keep blaming societies failings on lock down ?

@kittensinthekitchen

Don’t worry, they are leaving in droves and not being replaced. Soon you won’t have to worry about which teachers are shit (in your opinion) because there won’t be any.

And I can tell you this for certain. School refusal is often very complicated and hardly ever down to one factor. But if I had to pick (from my seventeen years of working with teens) the most important factor in getting kids into school and then being successful, it is parental support.

and what I am suggesting is that some parents need more guidance and help from agencies than they are receiving. And so therefore those agencies need more funding.

But there are also those who don’t give a shit about their kids but like to get extremely defensive when asked about things like social media usage, uniform or attendance because they also don’t like to be blamed for their own choices either.

But those families should still get support too because at the end of the day the kids shouldn’t suffer because parents can’t be bothered. I could tell hundred of stories about this but we don’t have the time.

So, yes. Some kids need help with tooth brushing. Is this the responsibility of teachers: no. Should parents be held to account for it: yes.

Exactly- it’s an initiative that is already well established in schools in some parts the UK and beyond.

Learning about health and self care is in the school curriculum, it’s not a new thing. Most primary teachers should be aware of health promotion- they will have come across the topic in their degree studies.

I think it had a profound effect on children @x2boys and schools are definitely dealing with social and behavioural issues that have resulted - attendance as well is another major issue that lockdowns worsened. I don't think it's as simple as saying three years have passed so it's irrelevant - children were impacted during crucial development windows and it's apparent that a significant number of children suffered badly, which I think goes to show how much schools were already taking on and what a safety net they are for kids. Perhaps it's laid bare a massive issue in society that there are more parents who can't or won't look after their children anywhere near adequately - and nowhere near enough support available to help or compel them to do so - than anyone thought, because schools have been holding things together so well for so long. But the cracks are too deep now, and not just in the concrete supposed to keep the buildings standing.

We did this at my primary in the 1970s but it was a tiny 2 room village school. There were 4 children in my year, 5 in the one below and 1 child in the year below that, less than 30 in the whole school. The dinner lady (singular) supervised it. As a teacher with a class of 30+, it is unworkable unless more lunchtime staff are employed to do it and who is going to pay for that?

It about time the society defines what role the school plays in shaping a child and what roles are parents responsibilities.

I agree with OP that we expect so much from the schools which are already underfunded and understaffed. It's fine for the dentist to come once a year to have a chat with kids or the nurse but not teachers unless it's in the lesson.

All I know is children can't brush their teeth properly by themselves until 8 or 9yrs and even after this age a parent need to brush it for them sometimes. Also I can't stand kids toothpaste,I don't think it does the job properly for older kids.

The NHS is this sexy topic that wins votes. Not enough people give a shit about public health. Why are we channeling all this money into treating people when they are ill etc and next to nothing into preventing them getting ill? Think how much better education would be funded if we saved the money of most of those tooth extractions.

Its all very well saying parents need to supervise their kids brushing their teeth, I agree, but I don’t think it’s the extent of the issue. I bet the vast majority of parents are brushing their kids teeth/supervising them brushing them… but are they brushing them at the right time of day, with the right products, with the right technique, for the correct length of time, feeding them the right things to prevent decay? How many parents come on here shocked because they’ve just found out the sugar content of most breakfast cereals or snacks marketed at kids? Hence…. public health education campaign.

Children shouldn't be brushing 3 times a day nor swallowing toothpaste - surely this leads to flouride discolouration of adult teeth? I wouldn't want my children brushing at school because I've already done it properly myself at home.

As a teacher, it just sounds unworkable. We can't recruit TAs or midday supervisors so no, a TA couldn't just do it. The few TAs we do have are busy doing the work that used to be done by Speech Therapists and CAMHS, but has now been pushed into schools.

What's so hard about brushing kids teeth twice a day? Either me or DH brushed the DC at night and they brushed themselves in the morning with proper adult toothpaste.

Obviously YANBU.

https://www.educationsupport.org.uk/resources/for-organisations/research/teaching-the-new-reality/

I get why you’d be opposed to it if you work in an area with low levels of deprivation where parents brush their kids teeth and monitor dental hygiene etc. However, not all parents do that. If the reality is that a number of parents aren’t doing their duties then surely, as a teacher, you want to do what you can to support the children? In an ideal society I completely agree schools shouldn’t have to be doing things like this for families, but if the statistics show that dental problems are on the rise and that parents are failing and there are measures that can be put in place to pick up their slack then personally I support that because ultimately it’s about doing what is best for the children, not for parents. I’d also assume that all good, involved parents would continue to carry out toothbrushing with their children morning and night and a lunchtime brush would just be a bonus so it’s not really infantilising, but for parents who don’t monitor toothbrushing at home at least we’d know their kids are getting one good brush a day and learning the skills to carry that over into home once old enough.

I did a bit more reading around the scheme Labour have proposed

IT’S ONLY FOR CHILDREN AGED 3-5 YEARS OLD!

https://www.nurseryworld.co.uk/news/article/labour-pledges-toothbrushing-scheme-for-three-to-five-year-olds-in-schools#:~:text=olds%20in%20schools-,Labour%20pledges%20toothbrushing%20scheme%20for%20three,five%2Dyear%2Dolds%20in%20schools&text=Labour%20has%20pledged%20to%20bring,the%20party's%20conference%20in%20Liverpool.

Not for the duration of primary school.

Just goes to show how a story can be sensationalised and taken out of context. Makes me question people’s agendas too.

As a student teacher 83-85ish I can remember supervising teeth brushing in primary.

If the reality is that a number of parents aren’t doing their duties then surely, as a teacher, you want to do what you can to support the children?

Again, emotional blackmail to guilt teachers into doing extra work for no extra pay.

I forgot to mention if labour think this is a problem they should put incentives in place for dentist to take NHS patients and stay in the area.

I can't believe some people don't have any NHS dentist where they live. This what labour should prioritise.

It is already a teacher responsibility, in England, as part of the Early Years Framework.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/early-years-foundation-stage-framework--2
I see many schools with supervised teeth brushing.

No dentists, yet poor teeth are a sign of neglect.

If I've understood correctly it's something they want to roll out for 3-5 year olds, so nursery and reception class in schools. DD is 9 and they were doing tooth brushing every morning at nursery when she was there so this was already well established.

It’s not extra work if it’s a funded programme and built into the school routine. Which appears to be the proposal.

It’s likely that the scheme would be led by the NHS, working in partnership with schools.That’s what happens with Child Smile in Scotland.

Where does this stop? Should teachers start having kids overnight also.

Just goes to show how a story can be sensationalised and taken out of context. Makes me question people’s agendas too.

My 'agenda' is to have a discussion about what exactly the role of schools should be, and if it is to include more and more child raising responsibilities then that needs to be openly acknowledged and funded.

If it is to include more and more support services because the actual support services have collapsed under the weight of requests, then that needs to be openly acknowledged and funded.

Any time the government or any think tank or whatever says 'schools should just....' the answer should be a firm NO until the money comes in.

There's currently a government taskforce looking at reducing teacher working hours by 5 hours per week. It's widely agreed even by this government that teacher workload is a massive issue. However, it's clear that that despite being a massive issue, it is not actually being taken seriously, if this government, and the next one, think they can say stuff like 'schools to start doing x' to solve problems elsewhere in the system with no pushback.

Then we could take charge of evening tooth-brushing too 👍