Labour want teachers to supervise kids brushing their teeth ARGH.

[noblegiraffe]

People can't get dentists for their children.

Children's teeth are one of the top reasons for child hospital admission, with 9 out of 10 extractions in 0-5 year olds being due to preventable decay.

This is clearly an area that needs addressing urgently.

BUT schools are in crisis, if they're not literally falling apart they are running out of teachers or unable to hire teaching assistants. Primary schools are increasingly unable to meet the needs of children with SEN and disabilities, where numbers are going through the roof. Where is the time to supervise teeth-brushing going to come from? Who has the capacity to implement this? It seems that Labour are willing to accept that there is a crisis in dentistry, but pushing extra workload onto schools to solve it is just failing to recognise the crisis in schools in terms of ability to take on extra responsibilities.

There is an increasing trend to see a problem in society and expect schools to do something about it. There's also an increasing trend whereby underfunded support services for children reduce the offer of those services, and schools are just expected to pick up the slack. An example would be NHS Southwest deciding to stop accepting referrals for autism diagnosis except in cases of extreme need, saying that schools could just deal with these children not having a diagnosis. CAMHS collapsing under the weight of mental health issues in children was met with the policy that schools should have a member of staff given a bit of training to try to replace expert services. Special schools are saying that some children are too needy for their specialist setting, so those children with extreme needs are left in mainstream schools who are just expected to get on with it.

Why is Labour's go-to that teachers should supervise teeth brushing and not that parents should supervise teeth brushing and be supported in this?

What do people want the purpose of schools to be? If it is to educate children, then the rest of this stuff needs to be farmed elsewhere.

If it is to be that schools should be a one-stop-shop for all issues relating to children, then we need funding, staffing and infrastructure that acknowledges this new role.

They want all schools to have breakfast clubs so that more parents can work. I haven’t seen any suggestions about reforming education systems.

And my blood runs cold when I hear any political party talking about educational reform. Because they usually mean shit like overhauling the curriculum or the exam system and even more so than teeth brushing, we do not have the capacity to do that.

I did hear Labour saying that they would use the private school VAT money to hire an extra 6000 teachers. I'm sure a quarter of a teacher per school would really make a difference, even if they could find them.

If the No Exclusions lot get to them, then we're all doomed.

And my blood runs cold when I hear any political party talking about educational reform. Because they usually mean shit like overhauling the curriculum or the exam system and even more so than teeth brushing, we do not have the capacity to do that

I did hear Labour saying that they would use the private school VAT money to hire an extra 6000 teachers. I'm sure a quarter of a teacher per school would really make a difference, even if they could find

Nothing makes my blood run cold more than the treatment of our children at the moment. But you stated they weren't looking at extra funding, they are. It may not be the full amount needed at once, but they are looking at a starting.

They are also looking at more funding for child mental health services which will be a big help in schools, if kids have access to mental health support.

But you stated they weren't looking at extra funding

I mean basic core funding for schools. The VAT money is supposedly being earmarked for recruitment, not school funding.

I mean basic core funding for schools. The VAT money is supposedly being earmarked for recruitment, not school funding

They say school funding also to better equip schools along side more staff.
At least they acknowledge their is a problem that needs looking at, not saying this is all you deserve and all you getting so crack on.

Can you find the info on this more funding?

I've looked at the webchat with Bridget Phillipson and she talks about money for teacher recruitment but can't promise any pay rises for teachers. She wants to 'raise the status of teachers' which is about as useless a statement as you can get.

Funding for mental health is a trained mental health professional in each school, which the Tories already tried and they can't recruit them and a whole load quit because it was too stressful. So 🤷‍♀️

She talks about tough economic times and not having any money. The cavalry it ain't.

All of our TAs are MDAs as no one else wants to do the job.

They take their lunch at 1-1.30, leaving us hugely short in that time

We make do, but giving them another job to do that takes them away from directly impacting learning wouldn't work for me, unless of course it's well funded and we use extra staff rather than our current staff

Wow, what area are you in ?

I have never heard of a school without any lunchtime staff.
So all your TAs are taking their lunchtimes during what should be lesson time?

That must be making do, We are short staffed as in TAs and some 1:1s for SEN children.

In many ways it works well as the staff are consistent throughout the day and the lunch staff know the children really well. But creative timetabling is needed to fill the gaps when they take lunch.

We also don't have any middays. All TAs.

It's interesting that even people working in schools don't know how bad things are in other schools.

Some of the stories that primary friends tell me are horrifying.

Same here

We also don't have any middays. All TAs

Is this by choice by the head, or just can't get anyone who wants to do it?
I've never heard of it and have friends dotted around the country who never mentioned it.
I dont know why im so intrigued by this

All schools have lunchtime staff. Most are the class TAs though.

When I first started teaching in the 90s, our ‘dinner ladies’ were just paid for the lunchtime period but they tended not to stay for long and the behaviour was dire, that we changed tack and had class TAs continue into the lunch period-this seemed to be a universal thing. Our TAs have their break at 1-1.30.

It's a recent thing for us since Covid. There's now much more flexible working options for mums so they don't need to do an hour a day in school.

In many ways it works well as the staff are consistent throughout the day and the lunch staff know the children really well. But creative timetabling is needed to fill the gaps when they take lunch

Yes and i suppose you don't get a whole list of incident and accident reports when they are delivered back to you.
I suppose its just the same as being understaffed normally, but you are prepared for it.....again, i don't know why it's baffled me 😂😂. Thanks for a new bit of info though.

It's interesting that even people working in schools don't know how bad things are in other schools

Oh, i know how bad it has got, by the sounds of it, it works well for the school. I have friends in different parts and we know

It's a recent thing for us since Covid. There's now much more flexible working options for mums so they don't need to do an hour a day in school

Ah yes, I suppose that makes sense with covid opening up more flexible working.

Dental decay is a huge issue affecting our children, it has been for a long time and it is not really getting better.

In 2022 at least 23.7% of 5 year olds had decay. It is less common in affluent areas and more common in deprived areas. It is not just because of "poor parenting" but many complex issues such as access to poor diets and lack of education. Many of these parents may also have poor dental health and see this as normal. We can't realistically accuse all of these families of neglect.

Of children with dental decay 40% will go on to develop pain or infection. This has a huge effect on their general health, their sleep, ability to eat well and to concentrate and learn at school. In this day and age dental decay should not be the most common reason for children to be admitted to hospital for general anaesthetics but it still is.

The rates of decay remain stubbornly high and there is evidence that regular brushing (especially with this sort of scheme) is more effective at preventing decay than regular visits to the dentist - which of course should still happen but there are often many barriers to this.

Given how common dental disease is and how severely it impacts on children's health then it really should be considered as a public health measure on a par with vaccination and given the same importance.

Of course this needs to be properly implemented into the school day but it should not be dismissed as a waste of time or too difficult when the evidence is that it can make a big difference to many children's wellbeing.

This document outlines most recent stats and trends in dental disease in children, I find it quite a shocking (if quite dry!) read:

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/oral-health-survey-of-5-year-old-children-2022/national-dental-epidemiology-programme-ndep-for-england-oral-health-survey-of-5-year-old-children-2022#:~:text=Of%20the%205%20year%20olds,hospital%20admission%20and%20general%20anaesthesia.

Of course this needs to be properly implemented into the school day but it should not be dismissed as a waste of time or too difficult when the evidence is that it can make a big difference to many children's wellbeing.

"teachers can just" and "won't somebody think of the children" have been repeated over and over and over. It doesn't change the current situation in schools.

People really, really don't get it.

I apologise for my phrasing in the quote above, I did not mean to cause offence. I am sorry that the situation in schools is so challenging.

When I was a child and went to the dentist for a check up, I remember the dentist would clean my teeth for me and my teeth would feel amazingly clean. I think this stayed with me and I tried to replicate it myself st home, even though I didn't have an electric toothbrush. These days the dentists don't clean my children's teeth when they have a check up.

No offence taken, I can see why people would think that it's really a good policy and that it would help children and therefore would be keen to persuade others to implement it.

I've seen on twitter a group of EYFS workers discussing why they have refused to implement it in their settings (some areas already do it) and others saying that they would refuse. I do think that it should give pause for thought that teachers who work with children and generally care for their wellbeing might be pushed to say no to such a request.

So many people on here claiming it only takes 5min - it really, really doesn't.

Lining the kids up to go to the dedicated area. Everyone getting their toothbrush. Everyone brushing, being checked. Everyone cleaning up. Lining up to go to the next area. An easy 15min.

If you have young children you must know how long even the simplest tasks can take with them. My youngest is 7 and everything still takes ages. Multiply that by 30.

And to those saying you can't force your own child to brush their teeth, you absolutely can, even if it's not nice. My eldest has ASD, and as part of that, brushing teeth in the early years were a massive battle every single morning and evening, with numerous times they had to be pinned down. It got better as they got older, but it's still not a favourite task, and yet I drag them to the dentist every 6 months for a checkup and deep clean.

At our school the lunchbreak for the children has already been cut by 15 minutes in an attempt to fit everything else in. If we cut it by another 10 minutes to brush teeth we'd be down to just 35 minutes. Most of our EYFS children take a minimum of 20 minutes to each lunch. Some are still sitting there after 30 minutes. When will they get a chance to run around on the playground?

And for those children who refuse to brush, what are staff realistically expected to do? Unlike parents, we don't have the option of physically restraining them and forcing a brush into their mouths - and neither would we want to!