Government to *finally* look at banning XL bullies

[NoCharnce]

Thank goodness. I cannot believe it has taken so long* to even look at banning these awful creatures (I say that as a dog lover). Looks like the viral footage of an XL mauling two men who were trying to defend an 11 year old girl is the straw that broke the camels back.

Tweet direct from Home Sec: https://x.com/suellabraverman/status/1700924751646982312?s=46&t=QlNZXgFJWDXuxa3K3yo7ag

*policy makers have been captured by the RSPCA/Dog’s Trust etc “it’s not the breed, it’s the owner” dogma

As a starting point every dog over a certain weight or on a long breeds list that could do damage, has to be in a full harness and on lead when out. Certain dog breeds must also be muzzled.

Banning them won’t do anything because a certain type of owner will just find the next XL bully, and we’ll have this conversation again in five years.

So what we actually need to do is impose better control on dog ownership and training generally.

It’s not ‘all XL bullies are evil monsters’ as the situation, it’s ‘all XL bullies have the ability to do substantial damage’ paired with ‘most XL bullies are owned by irresponsible dog owners’. We had a very reactive GSD in our family who’d failed out of the police for being too enthusiastic when chewing on criminals, he was the size of a small pony and weighed a ton. He could have done a similar amount of damage to an XL bully had he turned. He ended up a great family pet, but that’s because my grandad was one of those dog whisperer people and spent HOURS a day training him for months and always had him under total control.

I don’t know why this topic always brings others dogs into it, GSDs, rotties, dobies etc.. they aren’t even comparable, if you look at the statistics of a gsd killing people… they just don’t. Way too clever for that! Just this morning my GSD was attacked by a small off lead dog, yes it can’t do as much damage but it can damage my own dog as a result, tighter laws on dog ownership full stop need to be brought in… too many idiots!

nobody should own a dog more powerful than them no matter what the name of the breed happens to be

Personally I think all dogs except Guide Dogs, Sniffer Dogs, Rescue Dogs and Police Dogs should be banned. There is absolutely no need whatsoever to keep a dog as a pet. There is only a desire and desires do not have to be acted upon.
Useful dogs make useful work tools they are nothing more than that.

They're just reinventing the wheel. Blaming the owners isn't dogma it's fact.

Not all dogs are vicious, have you taken into account how they became big in this country - through COVID people had these to breed and make money nobody could go out so the dogs weren't socialized and people underestimated their size/strength/how much looking after they need. If they were looked after properly there wouldn't be so many incidents/deaths. Dogs are like people. Like the whole domestic abuse I have been abused by all 3 of my ex's but I know not all men are like that well this is the same principle all dogs are different it's how you look after them (yes there are the odd ones that are not good)

Good. I totally support this and think there should be much stricter dog laws.

Pits are killers. They can’t be compared to dachshunds who ‘bite’. Pits go a lot further than that and maul people to death especially babies and children, on a regular basis, pits that were supposedly sweet and docile their entire lives then rip a baby’s face off. No comparison to other dogs. They’re even more deadly than ‘dangerous’ breeds. They love to kill. Anyone who owns one is irresponsible. They like that they’re cheap and makes the owner look tough. That’s basically why people get them because they know how dangerous they are while claiming theirs is so sweet. Shelters are full of them.

The thing is, for most dogs, unprovoked attacks are the exception. For pits it’s the rule. There will be a few exceptions but that doesn’t excuse not outlawing them.

It's absolutely the dogs. I know two ladies who travel UK/Europe training and showing this breed (for other owners) and with the right owners they're amazing dogs.

Licensing would be a much better move.

*Absolutely not the dogs.

I'm a dog lover and believe there should be stricter rules even licences for who can own a dog like this, they need to be trained and exercised daily, people buy them because they're in fashion and don't realise what it takes to have a well balanced dog, they treat them like babies, I've seen videos where babies/young children are lying on dogs, hanging on they're necks and playing with the 'you know whats' its asking for a dog attack I would never trust a dog in that situation they're put under so much stress and its not their fault!! also the people who get on the floor and tease dogs with their food making them reactive, people need educating full stop. The people who go out to train vicious dogs are the problem and need tougher punishment. I believe any dog can snap and bite even attack out of the blue from pain or whatever, the difference with this breed is the pure size and strength you wouldn't stand a chance

Not all of these killings are actually XL bullies though?

Its a lot of them but not all of them.

And that’s only in the last 10 years.

The 10 years previous I don’t think there were any killings by XL bullies or perhaps just 1 or 2.

The 10 years previous there were absolutely none, most of the killings were from Rottweilers and German shepherds.

Although I have a huge American bulldog x Rottweiler x mastiff (and whatever else perhaps even pit bull), I am all for having stricter rules on dog ownership but I don’t think doing it for a single breed actually helps.

Not only does it make that breed seem more cool (like pit bulls) but the status dogs change every few years.

Why would it be ok for an irresponsible owner to not have an XL bully but they can get a Dalmatian and mistreat it.

My brother got his dog because someone was pissed and swapped her for a packet of fags.
She had had 6 owners by the time she was 2 and had been bred so much that she needed an operation.

I see numerous SM pages all over breeding dogs (especially XL bullies and French bulldogs) and there is absolutely no restrictions on them.

I think instead of focusing of banning certain breeds, there needs to be stricter rules on dog ownership all together.

No one should be able to just go out and get a living thing so easily.

I think if you want a dog you need to apply for a license to have one and it should come with strict rules like being microchipped and being neutered.
And only certain people should be allowed to breed and have regular checks.

My sister and bil have two large and very boisterous dogs, sister does struggle to handle them as they are strong as well and she is 66. The female ran and jumped up at me scratching my throat, underneath the new scarf I was wearing which was ripped. I was terrified and shouted DOWN and naughty, more quietly. My sister was furious with me for calling her naughty. My nephew and his dog, who is also large but very well trained and behaved looked on in horror. His dog refused to engage with sister's/bil's dogs after that.

I do blame the owners. They get dogs they cannot control or lack the time and inclination to train them.

The people who want to own vicious dogs are similar to the vicious dogs themselves in mindset. Why in the world would anyone want a pit, a dog breed known to kill babies and children and even maul adults to death. So in a way, the owner is matched with the dog. Every owner of a pit is irresponsible. The vicious reputation and cheap price of a pit are what attract the owners. It couldn’t be anything else, they’re only known for those 2 things. They snap after years of being “sweet and docile”. 🙄 So tired of the owner argument. The stories of loving parents who inexplicably had to have a pit which then tore their baby’s face off, it’s beyond foolish. It wasn’t the owner then was it.

First pit bull is different kind of bulldog. Second once again it's the owners and what they get their dogs for.
If we talk about dog and dog fights day to day majority of the time it's the little yappy dogs that start and the big ones react. It's only like someone shouting abuse at you without boundaries you would react.

It's okay for someone have a little dog like Chihuahuas because they are small but let them do what they want and well before you know it they are chasing you down the street trying bite your ankles. There's a lot more dogs like that than the bigger ones behaving as you say the difference is they are small so not seen as a threat however they can do just as much damage

She can't do anything though, it's not her brief. She's trying to curry favour.

Yes, but you can't legislate for a "type" of person! That's not a thing. You can, however, legislate for Bully XL "types" and that's a bloody good place to start. I was on the beach this week with my two toddlers and there were two of these dogs just bounding around. The scale of their jaws and their skulls. I'm sure their owners would say they're delightful dogs, but I've got absolutely no way of knowing anything about the dog or the owners. Why the fuck should I put up with that on a public beach?

As I mentioned upthread, only a choke-chain could assist an owner in trying to restrain an xl bully or similar strong bread in attack.

Harnesses do nothing in that situation. I know lots of people think choke chains are cruel and they are in many situations but even an adult muscular man can't pull back a strong breed in a harness during attack.

The only chance an owner has at that stage is to sharply pull up a choke chain and cut off the dogs air supply.

Sounds cruel but infinitely better than being able to do nothing or get savaged while trying to intervene.

Not all of these killings are actually XL bullies though?

Its a lot of them but not all of them.

The vast majority of fatalities ARE from that breed.
The majority of the rest are other Bull Breeds (American bulldogs/cane Corso)

This is for 2020 to 2023 data

Get rid of XL Bully then you get rid of the vast majority of fatalities attacks.
Get rid of ALL bull breeding you get rid of all but 1 or 2.

The breeding of these animals has not slowed down if anything its increasing. They are advertised everywhere now and they weren't back in 2020...if there are this many fatal attacks now then what will it be like in 3/4 years?

I would propose the following:

Outright ban on XL Bully in the UK - so no new purchases permitted (and yes that would mean a lot of dogs euthanised) failing that a ban on breeding from now on and all existing dogs to be muzzled/on lead/neutered

All other Bull Breeds to be muzzled in public and on lead

Massive Fines and prison time for the owners of ANY dog which seriously injures someone regardless of breed. I honestly think that would be the only deterrent to the people who want status animals.

For context - I adore dogs and have had them all my life. I used to think people who were scared of dogs were being ridiculous. First XL Bully I encountered changed my mind!

And that’s only in the last 10 years.

The 10 years previous I don’t think there were any killings by XL bullies or perhaps just 1 or 2.

'XL bullies' (or whatever crossbreed they name as such) didn't exist then, did they? I imagine that's why ...

Don't be daft. A chihuahua cannot do "just as much damage" as a bull terrier.

So many typos in that, apologies!

Please define "right owner" in a way that would work for legislative purposes.

It's a combo of breed and owner. You have a dog with aggression either not systematically bred out from catch dog or fighting origins, or deliberately bred in to make the dog look well hard. Then you have the sorts of owners who want a dog like that.

I met a much-tattooed, shaven-headed bloke a few years back, walking a young dog who was came corso crossed with iirc staff. We had a friendly chat, and it was obvious that he understood dogs, had a purpose in mind for the dog, was working on socialising her, had her walking well on a lead and so on. I very much doubt that dog will ever be a problem. She probably has the capacity to be (big, strong, guarding instincts from the corso, possible dog aggression from the staff) but the owner understood what he had on the other end of the lead and how to manage her.

Then there's the bloke I encountered the other day. He already had an Amstaff (as he described it) of about 18 months with zero recall (hence on lead, at least) and poor lead manners. He'd recently acquired a bloody huge XL bully, turning 5 months old and already looking as if it weighed about 30kg. So far, goofy and puppyish and recalling well, but the bloke clearly hasn't the ability to train a dog who decides it doesn't like recalling, and won't seek help. If that dog has any dodgy genetics or develops any issues, it is going to be a dangerous nightmare.

What's the solution? Maybe a ban, though ultimately that will be bred around. Maybe a system where dogs of a certain size or type need to licenced the way that shotguns and rifles are, including, as with firearms, a check with your GP, a check for a criminal record, a home visit etc and regular renewal checks.

And if any type of dog appears and starts causing regular fatalities, it gets added to the list.

This really gets my back up. Whilst I agree that something needs to be done about the breeding of dangerous dog breeds, people need to stop being ignorant and saying 'bull breeds' it's not all bull breeds it's a very minute number of breeds that have been inter-bred by morons to create weapons.

I'm a staffy owner. I'm not a chav. She's a rescue dog and she's soft as hell but the amount of negativity I get when I walk her is unreal because ignorant people see her as a dangerous dog. Staffies are actually one of the few breeds that are recommended as family pets. There are more attacks by chihuahuas and king Charles Spaniels so if you're going to go around saying 'ban all bull breeds' you need to educate yourself first before you petition to have someone's family pet put down based on media hyp and prejudiced stereo-typing.