Government to *finally* look at banning XL bullies

[NoCharnce]

Thank goodness. I cannot believe it has taken so long* to even look at banning these awful creatures (I say that as a dog lover). Looks like the viral footage of an XL mauling two men who were trying to defend an 11 year old girl is the straw that broke the camels back.

Tweet direct from Home Sec: https://x.com/suellabraverman/status/1700924751646982312?s=46&t=QlNZXgFJWDXuxa3K3yo7ag

*policy makers have been captured by the RSPCA/Dog’s Trust etc “it’s not the breed, it’s the owner” dogma

Dog breeding needs very strict control. No one should not be breeding any 'fighting dogs', or, come to that, dogs with medical problems due to unnaturally distorted bodies and heads and inbreeding. This is all animal cruelty, these poor creatures did not ask to be created. Unfortunately there is money to be made and money always talks. Large enough fines might prove a deterrent to the breeders (I mean hundreds of thousands). We should also stop any importation of such dogs from other countries. If none are bred or imported they will die out in a few years.

In recent weeks two of these dogs savaged and killed 22 pregnant ewes on a farm in Wales, injuring another 48. In another case a woman is suing the RSPCA because one she fostered from them took her arm off. Surely they are too risky for anyone to keep as pets.

By the way the owner of the sheep savaging dogs was banned from keeping dogs for five years and fined £900. I doubt the farmer thought that was sufficient, he lost £14000 worth of livestock.

Banning this crossbreed is going to have exactly the same impact as banning the pitbull crosses did on dog attacks which is none at all.

That’s not correct. No one was killed by a pit bull in 2020, 2021 or 2022. Or a pit bull cross. The only ‘pit bull crosses’ (if you can call them that, they technically are) that killed anyone in those years were actually bully XLs.

Banning breeds isn’t perfect but it’s the only thing that has had an impact. Many of the sorts of people keeping/ breeding XLs are unlikely to comply with any licensing.

some will escape at some point and kill again.

And some have killed their owners/ family.

Mostly the owners are macho fools. The point is that that ban on pit bulls meant pit bull crosses and the development of this "breed" in turn. These dogs need to be pts. Not only are they dangerous but you cannot trust people not to breed from them.

Exactly.

Drives me nuts when people say 'but little breeds can be aggressive too'. Yes we know, it's not a secret but when a terrier or chihuahua can cause life threatening injuries, then they can be included in this conversation.

And loving the poster not in control of their aggressive dog saying 'they (the dog) was provoked' 🙄

But that’s the point.

If you ban this breed people will get or create another breed and then that breed will be responsible for the majority of fatalities.

There also so many dogs that look like XL bullies but aren’t so how will people police it.

The first thing the government should do is ban all breeding of any dogs, unless you have a license which would involve regular check ups etc.

I actually don’t think we need any more dogs right now in the UK anyway, as the rescue centres are struggling to cope and reducing the numbers of actual breeders will reduce the amount of these dogs on websites like gumtree.

I think banning breeding would be easier to police, as adverts on gumtree or SM can be reported and then a quick check will see if they’re a registered breeder or not.

As a PP said no one should be making money off breeding dogs.

Technically yes, terriers and chihuahuas can cause life threatening injuries.

A bite which gets infected, and medical treatment isn't sought until it's too late is possible. There have also been a couple of cases of terriers attacking very tiny, delicate newborn babies while unsupervised.

There's absolutely no chance that they are going to drag an adult to the ground (as per today's video) and kill them; they're not realistically capable of causing massive blood loss either.

No one in their right mind would choose to tangle with an XL Bully over a terrier or a chihuahua. Their capacity to cause damage is far greater - in terms of both the speed and severity of the damage, and the lack of ability for an adult to overpower them.

It's a bit like arguing that joggers should be regulated in the same way as lorry drivers, because a jogger could knock an elderly person over, break their hip and set off a chain reaction that leads to their death a few weeks later... yes it could happen, but the chances of that actually happening are vanishingly small compared to what lorry drivers can and do, with nauseating frequency.

Yeah, and lots of other laws people find ways to get around. We don't just give up and not bother.

People took advantage of the 'legal high laws' and got around it and caused real damage. So new laws come into place.

They might not be quick but it's a lot better than just throwing up hands and saying 'what can you do?, they'll find a way". That's one of the major points of law enforcement, assessing the loopholes and telling the law makers that's how people are getting away with harmful shit.

chihuahuas and King Charles Spaniels don’t rip babies’ faces off.

What in the world, comparing ankle biters or a bite on the hand, or even a bite on the cheek to ripping entire face off a baby or mauling a toddler to death, and adults too, unprovoked.

No comparison. How can you not see that. Biting an ankle is a little different than mauling a person to death. Oh my. No wonder these dogs are allowed to kill.

Don't be so naive. They can kill a child or let's say they bite you, if they bite you in the wrong place your dead.

Don't be stupid. The Met aren't being called out once a day for a dog that can be eaten by an owl.

It's these boneheaded XL thug dogs

Oh give over - in those cases the attack/injury isn't life-threatening, infection is.

And if that's your argument- a rabbit or a squirrel could cause life-threatening injuries. Or a spider - could cause an infected bite and sepsis.

But that's not really what we're discussing here is it?

What's being discussed is hugely strong animals with attack/fight genes as part of their make-up. That can, and are killing people.

So anyone who comes along with whataboutery in regards to terriers or chihuahuas is being ridiculous, minimising and attempting to deflect from a very serious conversation about dangerous dogs that are killing other dogs and humans.

Its

Bring in licensing and the first terms should be:

No criminal record, at all.
Passed a compulsory basic training course in dog training and handling.
Has adequate space for the size of dog they wish the license to be for.

Eg: Live in a first floor flat and want a golden retriever? Tough tit, no license for you.
Want a German Shepherd and own a field with stables on? Fab, 1 license for you.
Have a ground floor flat with a garden and want a Pomeranian? Sure, a license to keep 1 Pomeranian.

The training courses would be run by council approved trainers in council inspected training facilities with the fees being split 50/50 with trainer and council to cover admin.

Licenses would cost the equivalent of a years average food cost of a dog and would need renewing each year for the same fee tied to average food costs.

A Breeding licenses would be triple the keeper license.

License fees go to the council to cover costs associated with issuing licenses. The dog wardens and environmental health departments of local councils would also have a 'report unlicensed dog / owner / breeder' and the dog wardens would have powers to interview and take unlicensed dogs and to prosecute people found in breach.

There, that's a start and should cover who the 'right' kind of people are.
If you want a dog, prove you're a good owner first.

Your response is exactly what i'm talking about! you've ignored the whole point regarding not all bull breeds are dangerous and focused on defending small breeds. A small dog is totally capable of seriously harming a defenceless baby but its obviously a lot easier for an adult to get the dog off - and I actually think that all dogs should be on leads in public spaces except for designated dog walking areas. You're condemning all bull breeds and their owners and tarring everyone with the same brush. It makes no sense that people are allowed to breed dogs (of any breed) without having checks and licenses.

Just look hound dogs were bred for sniffing out foxes, rabbits and other game, retrievers were bred for retrieving, pointers bred for pointing and terriers bred for catching put bulls are build for fighting.

You can't say it's the owner not the dog, when all the other dog breeds do what they say on the tin pretty much irrespective of owner input.

Training is only part of the consequences of the dogs behaviour, breed, build and purpose are much more important factors to consider.

Why are the RSPCA lobbying against it ?

This is a never ending argument but it is really the owners (and dare I say it the person that was bit)
I have a very large dog, a rescue, he is part bull mastiff.
He is scared of busy places and strangers but attracts people who constantly try to pet him.

Recently after a long day travelling and with my 81 year old mother we stopped in a country bar for a meal.
A baby just walking age kept coming over and reaching out to him, I was behind the table and my dog in-between tables.
I told the boy's dad, who had not tried to stop the boy that my dog was nervous and he then tried to pet him! my dog ducked out if the way of his hand and was backed up against the wall.
The baby came running at him and touching his nose.
I didn't know what to do as the baby was scaring my dog even though he is 5 times the size and the father was not doing anything. I thought of pushing the child, imagine how that would have looked! But I was behind the table and would have had to make my dog move out nearer the child to get out.
I seen the moment something changed in my dogs face and he is not a biter so he barked.

That was the end of that, baby screamed the place down had to be taken outside, people probably thought my dog had attacked him but he had nowhere to go and irresponsible parents put their child in a potentially dangerous position.
If my dog had bitten they would have been put down.
I was shocked, just leave my dog in peace and they will do the same

Nobody cares about this mastiff. You should have ensured the child was safe. A huge dog that is scared? What a recipe for disaster.

Children do not accommodate dogs. Dogs should be safe or otherwise in places where there no children. That is on the owners.

This simply isn't true, here is a list of the fatal dog attacks in the Uk since 1737.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

There are lots of Staffy attacks and absolutely none by Chihuahuas or King Charles spaniels. Which I'd imagine would be a surprise to absolutely no one, except you it seems.

Nope, not ignoring your point, it's just your point is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the conversation in hand.

What you're saying is akin to a conversation about abusive and violent men. And you saying 'but women can be abusive and violent too'. Yes, we know. But the likelihood of serious physical harm caused by a violent man is greater and more frequently life-threatening or life-ending than the risk a woman poses, it's biology.

No-one is ignoring that little breeds can cause physical harm. No-one is ignoring that women can cause physical harm.

But that's not what this conversation is about. And if you can provide any actual recorded instances of terriers harming or killing babies that might support your weak argument but I'm guessing you don't? have the evidence to suggest that the risk posed by terriers should be included in a conversation about risks of serious harm caused by dogs predominantly recently actually killing people?

I'm not condemning dog owners, I'm saying dog owners of the breeds usually think they're lovely and gentle and everyone shouldn't judge them.

But the breeds are inherently attack dogs and owners thinking they have a lovely gentle dog shouldn't be able to own the dogs in the first place. Because they should be banned. Because it doesn't matter how good of an owner you are, your dog is instinctively an attack dog.

Like I said earlier, 90% of the owners mauled to death and their DC mauled to death by the 'family pet' thought they knew their dogs were gentle and loyal to the family.

Except when something triggers them and they're ripping someone's face off. Which is what has happened in all the cases this year or more.

Chihuahuas have f-all to do with it.

Do you have to live amongst this 'type" of person because I do. If their weapon of choice was banned tomorrow we would feel safer in our council estate. They have these dogs to intimidate people and until a long term solution is found, banning them will help a little.

No that's not what I said is it? I completely agree that dangerous dog breeds need to be addressed what I said was not all bull breeds are dangerous and it's infuriating that people use the term bullbreeds. Rottweilers are not bull breeds and statistics show that they are one of the more likely to cause a fatal attack as are German Shepherds so why are we only calling on bulls to be banned?

And my point was that ANY dog is capable of maming or killing a baby if it is left at it long enough but obviously it's a lot easier to remove a small dog.

Someone else had called me out and posted the stats for fatal dog attacks and there are some small dog breeds such as a Jack Russell on there 🤷‍♀️

Someone else had called me out and posted the stats for fatal dog attacks and there are some small dog breeds such as a Jack Russell on there.

Yes, for tiny babies who were left alone with the dog, not for adults who still couldn't fight them off, even with substantial help - and that list doesn't include the very many life-changing injuries and animals that are killed either.

Of course some nefarious people are attracted to some breeds of dogs.

But it is still, the.breed.

Some breeds of dogs are attack/fight dogs. Their entire physiology is designed for that and their temperament is also.

And even if you think you're one of those owners with a gentle cane corso/xl bully/pit bull etc.

Their physical make up is they are stronger than you and if your calling them back doesn't work, you are f-ed and there is nothing you can do to stop them once they're in attack mode.

Their musculature is immense and nothing like humans or most other dogs and once they start, they're unlikely to stop.

I'd be extremely frightened by a large dog like a labrador in attack on another dog or human but I think I might stand a chance if I or someone else booted it in the face or in the body. At least to make it stop or pause.

With stronger attack type dogs a human has no chance. The dog will stop when it's ready and physical assaults by humans make little to no difference as we've seen recently with the attack on the little girl and 2 grown men were seriously injured trying to intervene.